Quoting: Cunning Plan
Does anyone know what the service around 100k would consist of for a 2.0 TDCi?
A roll of duck tape and a couple of hail Mary's for her continued running (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Have a look yourself, use the drop down boxes to get the exact model etc...
http://www.etis.ford.com/fordservice/serviceScheduleForm.do
Or, what someone on TalkFord.com did
Quoting: TalkFord.com Poster
I don't know about the book list but heres what I had done
Radiator flush and refill,
Power steering fluid (although I have been told that best left alone)
brake fluid
fuel filter
oil & filter
plugs
brake disks
brake pads
Air filter is a fairly new K&N so that was left alone
I think stuff like discs and pads could probably be left off unless they're less than a 1/4 away from worn out.
The DMF is not something that can easily be checked for, its more a part that gradually showns signs that it's worn. To be honest, it's a complete bastid as it can happen at any time. Just look through the receipts bills etc for a clutch change, unless it says specifically that the DMF has been changed, assume it hasn't and that it could be a likely expense in the future. Some go, some don't. But then you have a clutch change it's a good idea to get them done at the same time.
Signs of DMF wear include a slight judder on the clutch pedal at mid travel and often not long before it gets really bad, difficulties starting (as though the starter motor isn't engaging the ring gear).
Quoting: Cunning Plan
04 plate estate, clutch has been changed at 81k, now at 102k. Confirmed with the owner that the DMF was NOT changed at the same time
They went with the cheap option, which you can hardly blame them for with an extra £200 odd quid for it.
Being 04 it should have the facelift, which included a smarter front end with different lower fogs, and improved cabin and some had a Sony headunit (looked like stock but was a better stereo apparently) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Quoting: Andy
Being 04 it should have the facelift, which included a smarter front end with different lower fogs, and improved cabin and some had a Sony headunit (looked like stock but was a better stereo apparently)
Good to know (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Might go a car hunting this weekend if I get time....anyone wanna buy a Mustang (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Definately buy 04 - onwards.
Problem is, 04 model year is when the DMF problems started if I have understood what I have read correctly - so cars built in 2003 for 2004 model year - primarily 04 plates.
Quoting: Andy
They went with the cheap option, which you can hardly blame them for with an extra £200 odd quid for it.
Correct.
Car was very nice..... TO LOOK AT, the rest of it was total rubbish:
I knew something was up with it after 30 mins looking at it, didn't even need to take it for a test drive, handed the keys back to the guy and said I'm going to leave it there. He texts me back 10 mins later whilst I am on my way home saying "did the noise of the Alternator bearings put you off" - it wasn't just that, the flywheel needed doing as well as it was tapping away and it was using oil - but IF he KNEW about the alternator, why didn't he put it on the ad or tell me before I left to look at the car?!
Just trying to pass on their rubbish to someone else.
On-top of that, the tyres all needed replacing, needed a service and needed tax. You would be 1500k out of pocket buying that car putting it back to good condition.
Shame as the rest of the car was great.
Back to searching.
Reason for searching? My MK2 is broken (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)
What is up with your Mk2?!
Aye, sounds like you dodged a bullet there! Also admitting that he knew there was a fault isn't great. Forget it and move on, not as though they're rare! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
As a friend has just found out (a Mk3 Mondeo Estate owner) if it comes with alloys, for christ sake make sure you get a locking wheel nut adaptor! Frauds wanted to far side of £100 for a replacement.
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Problem is, 04 model year is when the DMF problems started if I have understood what I have read correctly - so cars built in 2003 for 2004 model year - primarily 04 plates.
Erm, I believe they start with the Mk3 TDCi engine, so from about 2002 or so onwards. They fitted it to the new engine, Mk2 had a standard solid flywheel.
Quoting: Andy
What is up with your Mk2?!
Ah, will take too long to explain and I am too annoyed to type it all tonight, but in short - tried to fix, cost me £200+, wrong parts made it worse, now off the road.
Quoting: Andy
As a friend has just found out (a Mk3 Mondeo Estate owner) if it comes with alloys, for christ sake make sure you get a locking wheel nut adaptor! Frauds wanted to far side of £100 for a replacement.
Ah, very good point, I will add that to my buyer's guide I have slowly been putting together.. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
Quoting: Andy
Erm, I believe they start with the Mk3 TDCi engine, so from about 2002 or so onwards. They fitted it to the new engine, Mk2 had a standard solid flywheel.
Quoting: Talkford.com buyer's guide
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/v8_nate/Screenshot2011-10-19at202713.png)
Quoting: Andy
http://www.etis.ford.com/fordservice/serviceScheduleForm.do
This is good, thanks for the link, didn't know you could access this information (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
there are a few checks for DMF
get on and off the throttle abruptly a few times, there should be no snatching or clonking, also with the engine off, put the car in gear, and rock ot forward and backwards, any metallic squeaking is the DMF.
If there is a bill for a recent starter be very wary - swarf and dust from a failing DMF clog it very quickly, often leading to failure of the starter bendix.
Excellent information PO, exactly what I needed. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/clap3.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Why restrict yourself to a mondeo though, there are many other practical cars out there that do everything as well or better, Saab 9-3 volvo V40 / S40 Merc C class and BMW 3 series spring immediately to mind..
Not so much 'restricting' myself, more so going through a check list of requirements and the Mondeo comes out top.
I need under 100k, or close to. Under 3k, estate, diesel, tow bar is a bonus (unless it is excessively used and shiny like the one I saw tonight!!! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)), NOTHING French or Vauxhall and be capable of 60mpg.
Nothing ticks all those boxes apart from the Mondeo. There are a few wild-cards around like the Kia Carens which you can get an immaculate one with 70k on for under 2k. I like Hyundai and Kia, BUT I'd rather spend a little extra and get a Ford, more so from the parts availability and the MPG, the Carens just can't quite match it.
Sure, I could get a VW or BMW, but it will have 250 - 300k on for my budget.
VW retains a high resel value because of the scene from people with rubbish old buses and Beetles (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Saab 9-3 volvo V40 / S40 Merc C class and BMW 3 series spring immediately to mind..
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Not so much 'restricting' myself, more so going through a check list of requirements and the Mondeo comes out top. I need under 100k, or close to. Under 3k, estate, diesel, tow bar is a bonus (unless it is excessively used and shiny like the one I saw tonight!!! ), NOTHING French or Vauxhall and be capable of 60mpg.
Nothing ticks all those boxes apart from the Mondeo. There are a few wild-cards around like the Kia Carens which you can get an immaculate one with 70k on for under 2k. I like Hyundai and Kia, BUT I'd rather spend a little extra and get a Ford, more so from the parts availability and the MPG, the Carens just can't quite match it.
Sure, I could get a VW or BMW, but it will have 250 - 300k on for my budget.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/plusone.gif)
Though my next car in a couple of years will probably be German because of the lower depreciation.
I've always liked the Passat CC my bro has (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif).
Baring any serious unplanned maintenance costs on the Mondeo I should earn £2-3K on travel expenses to go towards a car.
Saying that the 12MY Mondeo is supposed to look the tits!
Fake pic but you get the idea
(http://photos.autoexpress.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_933/car_photo_466909_7.jpg)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
I'm not just looking locally either, I'm looking in the big triangle in between Wisbech, Northampton and Cambridge
I think mine came from Peterborough way . . . . (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
The other's are a bit too far away to look at and find they are rubbish like the one yesterday.
Just shout if you want me to have a butchers at any of them or if you see any in the South Bucks area.
The 2.2 is the muts nuts of their diesel engines, but fair enough if you want the MPG sticking with the 2.0 should give you the best of both.
Quoting: Incursus
Fake pic but you get the idea
(http://photos.autoexpress.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_933/car_photo_466909_7.jpg)
Wow! That really looks nice! That looks like it'll be doing the same as the Mk1 to Mk2 transition, just new bumpers and fenders, as the rest of the car looks the same.
Quoting: Andy
Just shout if you want me to have a butchers at any of them or if you see any in the South Bucks area.
Appreciated fella, will let you know (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/clap3.gif)
Quoting: Andy
but fair enough if you want the MPG sticking with the 2.0 should give you the best of both.
FYI mine's a 130Bhp and I get silly MPG out of mine. Unless the 115Bhp is getting 70MPG or more I'd go for the extra power as I find mine a bit sluggish at times so dog knows what a 115 would be like.
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Dude, 174k
For £600 more I could have a 4-5 year younger Mondeo with 90-100k on the clock
90 - 100k is right in flywheel danger territory - you be better off with 120,000 that had a flywheel and clutch 10,000 miles ago.
the audi, merc or BM is undoubtedly going to be able to cover more miles than the mondeo though, hence the higher mileage for the same age / money. you get what you pay for and the German and Swedish contenders are higher quality, better engineered cars.
if you look around you should be able to find an A4 with 150,000 miles - its still going to have 100,000 trouble free miles left. How a car has done its mileage is so much more important than total mileage.
I haven't even bothered to suggest alfa because the 156 is getting old, and the 159 is miles outside of your price range - you wont find anything worthwhile (if at all) under 7k - they really hang onto their value.
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Ah, will take too long to explain and I am too annoyed to type it all tonight, but in short - tried to fix, cost me £200+, wrong parts made it worse, now off the road.
is it really unrepairable ..(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Quoting: art b
is it really unrepairable ..
Nothing is unrepairable, its just the financial and time involved in fixing it. I hit that limit with my blue one and having another one being offered to me at the right time!
Quoting: Roadkill
FYI mine's a 130Bhp and I get silly MPG out of mine. Unless the 115Bhp is getting 70MPG or more I'd go for the extra power as I find mine a bit sluggish at times so dog knows what a 115 would be like.
Roger that.
Quoting: art b
is it really unrepairable ..
Already spent £250 on it, needs both front bearings, differential bearings and CV joint. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad2.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
90 - 100k is right in flywheel danger territory - you be better off with 120,000 that had a flywheel and clutch 10,000 miles ago
True, but then you have bearings to worry about too. I'm looking for one in good condition to be honest, if it HAS had the clutch and DMF done, I am willing to look at cars with higher mileage on. There are plenty out there that haven't had the clutch or DMF done at 120/130k.. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Quoting: Andy
At this rate the MKB meets will actually end up being Ford Mondeo meets...
I know where my £500 would be going (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24557
Quoting: Cunning Plan
True, but then you have bearings to worry about too. I'm looking for one in good condition to be honest, if it HAS had the clutch and DMF done, I am willing to look at cars with higher mileage on. There are plenty out there that haven't had the clutch or DMF done at 120/130k..
Bearings are cheap and easy, DMF's aren't.
Quoting: philoldsmobile
now yer talking Martyn.. the change buys a lot of petrol, and you wont die of tedium driving it!
I've driven one of those for a long distance and the turning circle is terrible, plus it is too small. Nice if that is what you are looking for though.
But it can't tow, hit 60mpg or carry a goat in the back. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/banned.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
economy is for tightwads and hippies..........
Says he who walks to work. Whay MPG was the Sanya getting when you worked in Bedford ?
Hippy. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/taunt.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Quick question for RK - as yours already has a towbar, would you mind having a quick look to see if there is a factory 'plug' for the towbar socket wiring, or if you have to wire it up manually and splice into the rear lights?
Don't remember - I'll have a look - but not at the mo - it'll have to wait til I'm in more suitable rags.
Seem to recall it was a tidy install, though.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
economy is for tightwads and hippies.........
Or for those that earn money for driving to work (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
The more economical the car the more money I earn.
Quoting: Incursus
Or for those that earn money for driving to work
The more economical the car the more money I earn.
Why get a ruddy great tank of car then (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Would have thought a small diesel was the way to go (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: F Body
Why get a ruddy great tank of car then
Would have thought a small diesel was the way to go
Those little diesels aren't ideal for push chairs and what not... (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: F Body
Quoting: Incursus
Or for those that earn money for driving to work
The more economical the car the more money I earn.
Why get a ruddy great tank of car then
Would have thought a small diesel was the way to go
Mostly because it's mostly motorway driving so I prefer a bigger car for cruising but also small cars just aren't very practical.
If I must get a sensible car I may as well go the whole hog.
Quoting: Incursus
but also small cars just aren't very practical.
Quoting: Andy
Those little diesels aren't ideal for push chairs and what not...
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: Andy
Quoting: Incursus
but also small cars just aren't very practical.
Quoting: Andy
Those little diesels aren't ideal for push chairs and what not...
Shhh she might hear you!
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/slap.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/smirk.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
Or for those that earn money for driving to work
Or for people that want to spend their money on other things rather than getting to work.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: F Body
Why get a ruddy great tank of car then
Quoting: Incursus
If I must get a sensible car I may as well go the whole hog.
^^ (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/plusone.gif) A small diesel would be great, but as I keep saying, it can't tow or get anything else in it. My old estate moved me out of 3 houses! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/mouth.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
I was never a fan but I must admit - it's a fantastic car.
Another satisfied mondy owner! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
Have you found one yet CP/Chris? C'mon lads, these ain't rare you know! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: Andy
Have you found one yet CP/Chris? C'mon lads, these ain't rare you know!
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/nono2.gif)
Actually, trying to find one that has been well looked after, that's an estate and 2003 onwards, locally (within 100 square miles) is pretty hard. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tea.gif)
Quoting: Andy
Have you found one yet CP/Chris? C'mon lads, these ain't rare you know!
Don't need one till the new year might go look at one next Saturday.
Besides the Mustang isn't even getting a sniff (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
Besides the Mustang isn't even getting a sniff
Have you tried eBay?
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Actually, trying to find one that has been well looked after, that's an estate and 2003 onwards, locally (within 100 square miles) is pretty hard.
Aye, I think further a field might be an option if you need it sooner (ROADTRIP!)
How badly is the old gal at the minute knackered? What are you gonna do with her?
Quoting: Andy
Quoting: Incursus
Besides the Mustang isn't even getting a sniff
Have you tried eBay?
No, that's the next step.
Quoting: Andy
these ain't rare you know!
The latest generation are very rare, looking at the sales figures if you want exclusivity, buy a Mondeo (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
OK random change of direction for me..
Traitor (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
the audi, merc or BM is undoubtedly going to be able to cover more miles than the mondeo though, hence the higher mileage for the same age / money. you get what you pay for and the German and Swedish contenders are higher quality, better engineered cars.
Sorry, don't agree with that.
Swedish:
If it's a SAAB it's just a vauxhall and will last no longer than a Vectra. However a guy at work has a Vectra V6 on LPG (factory) that has covered over 300,000 miles...
If it's a Volvo then it's typically got the same running gear as the Ford equivalent.
German:
The most over-rated crap on earth.
If it's a BMW it will go wrong. A lot.
VAG group diesel engines which are fine unless you drive in heavy traffic when you have particulate filter problems.
Mercedes used to be hot and electrics aside still are, but bear in mind that many Mercedes diesels are now VM diesels as fitted to Jeep...
Why do you see so many high mileage German cars? They tend to be owned by people high up in companies who cover a lot of miles for business. Easy miles on the motorway and servicing is taken care of by the company.
Vauxhalls and Fords tend to be used and abused more and do shorter trips as hire cars which is bad for the engines, clutch etc etc.
Personally I think Ford make the most reliable averagely priced cars.
Could go Japanese and get an Avensis (if you have died inside)
50,000 minicab drivers can't be wrong...
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
The cylinder heads on them crack. Not a question of if, but when.
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
(as long as not the 2.5TD).
I'm not doubting your knowledge, but after reading up on the 2.5TD VM engine, it seems they were also installed into LX1 taxis - in mass - so do they have the same issue?
EDIT- Sorry that should read LT1 Taxis:
Quoting: Wikipedia
The latest vehicle to benefit from a 2.5 L VM Motori diesel engine is the purpose-built LTI (London Taxis International) London style taxicab - the TX4 is the first of the TX range of taxis to include a VM Motori engine.
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Running cost on lpg on one of those would be equiv to a 38mpg petrol car (on a run) or a 28mpg petrol car around town.
Can't afford the LPG conversion, plus LPG around here is quite expensive (84 something). Are you sure you would get 28mpg out of a 4.0 petrol Cherokee around town? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Check carefully for rust, especially at the back, and check for no nasty noises from the diffs. Also check front ball joints, they can eat them.
Roger that, will check balljoints tomorrow (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/security.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
I'm not doubting your knowledge, but after reading up on the 2.5TD VM engine,
Vauxhall fitted it to the Frontera for two years, it was quiet, gutless and unreliable (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)
The Chrysler Voyager 2.5TD is also a VM engine:
Quoting: Wikipedia
and Voyager (2.5-litre) models.
Quoting: F Body
Vauxhall fitted it to the Frontera for two years, it was quiet, gutless and unreliable
See this one I just drove was quiet, but I thought it had plenty of power for the car of that size - sure you won't win any races though.. Unreliable? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
You may be lucky in the time you have it, but your mention of the dropping water level on that farmers one is not inspiring me with confidence...
Appreciate the information fella.
I'm just going to go by what I could see - there was no smoke, no evidence of water in the oil and it didn't seem to use any after a 10 mile run and idling for a while, it was also running smoothy. Normally I would be hesitant of a car with any fluid from MAX - but this guy just seems too good and geninune to lie. Perhaps I will regret it, but I am actually going to trust someone for a change (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/kickme.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dunce.gif)
The old boy 71 years old, just wants a pick up to go collect firewood instead of the Cherokee. He doesn't need to sell it though as he uses a trailer on the Cherokee for now, but finds it hassle hitching it up. He hasn't got a bank account and didn't know you could check vehicle history online..
Cheers.
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Also check front ball joints, they can eat them.
Just found on the Advisories for the last MOT it has slight play in OSF top ball joint. Any idea how expensive these are to replace?
If it's anything like my bus, most of the suspension has to come apart? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/huh.gif)
Quoting: F Body
The latest generation are very rare, looking at the sales figures if you want exclusivity, buy a Mondeo
Aye, but that isn't a real Mondeo... is it! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
About £200 a shot I *think* if done by the Jeep specialist I use near Enfield, N London...
OOooffhhhh... (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Don't let my concerns on the engine put you off if you recon you've found a good one
Not at all buddy, I fully appreciate your opinion and knowledge on these. The more the better (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
The key thing is that is has been maintained (not normally a farmers strong suit in my experience)
It has service history up to 90k, then he has had it serviced by the local garage to 120k, it's due another service, but as it has just had a new water pump and aux belt, I am hoping the water has been drained and replaced with fresh antifreeze etc - (one thing I know that can damage head gaskets is old antifreeze). The engine bay is extremely clean with new parts all over - new pads, discs, brake lines, fuel filter looks clean etc. I am just hoping he came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth spending good money on water pump ect if the car wasn't worth it.
Seeing it again tomorrow at 10. Going to let it idle for a long time to get the temperature up again and mark out the water whilst I check out the history again. I'll take it for a drive and if the water doesn't move, I think I'll go for it. I need to be in Cambridge for 12 so it will be a rush to get my insurance changed over and drive down there. Then Thursday I need to pick the bus up and trailer it back - so it will get a big test under fire! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
I'm hoping if the head was cracked it would be loosing compression, but it ran real well, to the point where you could assume it was a petrol!
Hmmm.. I'm trying to put everything I have learnt about cars to the test here to ensure I get a reasonable one. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Watch this thread to see if CP makes a big mistake (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/snacking.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
I've seen some very tidy looking diesels for £350 - £500
hmm.. try a bit more! This one is £1,500. However, I have seen similar on Autotrader / eBay for 2k.
If I manage to part-ex it for 1,300 or something I'd be happy.. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
You have me thinking now.
I've just done an eBay search for completed listings and they do seem to go between £500 and 1k as you said (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Not sure about the water pump, he just said it had been changed recently - I didn't think to ask why (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
If you got a 4.0L for half the price it would pay for the difference in fuel cost over almost a year i guess?
Yeah, this is true (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: art b
didnt know his car was advertised....
It was in the local paper for 3 weeks, but it didn't sell or no one looked at it. He didn't know that the local paper cars also appear on the Motorstoday website for a while after the print ad.
Quoting: art b
its gonna have to be cheaper than 1500 i'd imagine to allow for the repairs
Yeah, after thinking about it a bit more I think I'm going to pull out. It's a shame as the thing is in great condition, but as you say bad opinions about the 2.5TD are there for a reason.
Ah well, that was a fun detour. Back to looking for a Mondeo (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Back to looking for a Mondeo
Why don't you come to a compramise, you like this 4x4, but then you like Mondeos, short of a 4x4 rear ending a Mondeo and you being a crazy nutter and buying the pair, why not get a Mk1 4x4 Mondeo! Job done! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Jeep Cherokee 1999, 2.5 Diesel
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!
Ticking time bomb !!!
Gutless, too.
4.0L are the only way forward with the Cherokee - and they're pretty slow as well ! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
Quoting: F Body
This is all way too much effort to put into buying a disposable shed
I hear what you are saying, but is £3,000 disposable to you? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
Quoting: Rob
V5 had arrived as it said at the bottom of the auction.
Ahh, missed that bit.
Nice one chap (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Nice one Rob, but just one thing...
Quoting: Ford Wiki
Unfortunately, there was a design flaw with the new 1.8 and 2.0 L petrol units with the butterfly valves in the inlet manifold, which could cause severe engine damage when they failed. The plastic components of the butterfly valves wear out too quickly and when loose enough can result in them falling apart and releasing metal and plastic parts into the engine cylinders, potentially causing severe engine damage. The part was revised by Ford in late 2002 and this prevented the problem from occurring in later engines.
Might be worth checking out, but probably alright if nothings fallen in yet!
Quoting: Andy
Might be worth checking out, but probably alright if nothings fallen in yet!
With this being a Jan 03' registered car, hopefully it made the cut. Won't do any harm to check though. Cheers!(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: Rob
With this being a Jan 03' registered car, hopefully it made the cut. Won't do any harm to check though. Cheers!
Not a problem, I nearly picked up a 2001 reg Zetec for a bargin price, put all the details up on Talkford (MEG at the time) and was warned of it. Sure enough on checking the car out, the guy couldn't prove the work had been done, and there was a faint noise that I couldn't be certain wasn't that. If that makes sense. I walked away from it just to be safe.
Seriously though, that looks like a steal at that price. Being a Ghia too, its not listed but does it have cruise?
Quoting: Cunning Plan
I hear what you are saying, but is £3,000 disposable to you?
£3k ain't shed money, but it's a heck of lot of greenbacks for a high mileage motor (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
If Rob got that Estate for £660, I'd have thought that £1,500 would buy you a belter (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Quoting: F Body
If Rob got that Estate for £660, I'd have thought that £1,500 would buy you a belter
I think you'll finds Rob buy was very much a good deal. My Mk2 petrol cost me £600 at the start of the year and that had just clocked 100k.
Diesels, particular Mondeo diesels will always sell much better and for a better price. Just look at how many people are shifting them for much more than the petrol equivilant.
Quoting: Andy
its not listed but does it have cruise?
Unfortunately not
Quoting: F Body
If Rob got that Estate for £660, I'd have thought that £1,500 would buy you a belter
Quoting: Andy
Diesels, particular Mondeo diesels will always sell much better and for a better price. Just look at how many people are shifting them for much more than the petrol equivilant.
Yah, it's because I do a lot of miles and want a diesel, they hold their price well as they are the more desirable version and they were more expensive to purchase from new.
Stop giving Rob praise, it's making me jealous (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/stir.gif)
Quoting: F Body
Ghia X estate with a tow bar, 114k miles and the cam belt just done £650
That's not bad actually. If that was local, I would probably go for it. However, I can't risk going all the way up to Leeds to find it is a skip (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Thanks though FB. If you see anymore on your travels (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
I can't risk going all the way up to Leeds to find it is a skip
Have free railcard, will travel.....(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Yeah, after thinking about it a bit more I think I'm going to pull out.
The old boy just called me after a few days saying he has done some speaking to his misses and he well let me have it for £1,200.
It IS immaculate and drives well (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
I did enjoy driving it (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
£1,000 is about what they are going for on eBay (diesel ones).. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
I guess if I liked it enough, when the head did crack, I could just put a new / low milage one on? They aren't OHC - so no timing belt to worry with.(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
He said the water pump propellers smashed up which is why it needed to be replace, but it did not over heat. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
The old boy just called me after a few days saying he has done some speaking to his misses and he well let me have it for £1,200.
Walk away (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
this isn't intended as a snide comment, but woolly clutch? can you back out of the deal? if so PLEASE DO
the clutch shouldn't be woolly at all, even at that (danger zone) mileage. sounds likea big bill is on the way. Does it have a warranty? ALL DMF equipped Mondeos (all MK3 onwards) suffer DMF and clutch failure, as do all vectras. the VAG group cars also suffer, but nowhere near as badly.
Woah, easy there Phil, I'm sure Chris has given this a good going over. A clutch in a Ford can feel completely different to any other car, I think the woolly (great technical term btw (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif) ) could mean a variety of things.
Quoting: philoldsmobile
octavia VRS
Now thats just crazy talk, where would you pick one of those up for sub £2k. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Chris, Welcome to the (C)klub, you have got a full service history on that thing right? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
If it was a diesel Skoda it would still have DPF problems.
Oh and injector problems.
just like the mondeo..... only much less.
Quoting: Andy
A clutch in a Ford can feel completely different to any other car,
it really shouldn't, nothing in a mondeo should feel in any way unusual, as the mondeo is the definition of middle of the road.
a 'different' Mondeo is a broken Mondeo. back out, there are thousands others that don't have wooley clutches. Diesels give clutches a hard time, (and DMF's) so even the slightest hint of trouble is walk away territory. The impending clutch issue is probably why the previous owner got shot...
Some advice I got from someone else regarding the DMF / clutch:
Quoting: Some knowledgeable dude on VZi
Road test should show any clutch issues when the dmf starts to go it will be felt in the form of vibration up the pedal and through the whole car if the clutch dont slip when you boot it in 4th gear it should be fine try pulling away in top with the hand brake on it should stall the engine, all gears should be smooth up and down.
Quoting: Incursus
If its a lemon it's a lemon I can only do my best.
Yep, you get to a point where no matter how well you check a car over and use all your knowledge and all the advice you can get, sometimes a car can seem perfect on that day but still end up breaking. You have to buy something at some point, all you are doing is trying to reduce the odds that something will break / has broken - but you can't eliminate the risk entirely (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
I just put a deposit down on a 2005 2.0TDCi 130 Ghia, Ł2300.
Sounds alright dude. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif) Right in the middle price-range of what I was looking at. Is it an estate? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/huh.gif)
Don't forget to do a HPI check (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Is it an estate?
Nope Estate. Quoting: Cunning Plan
Quoting: Some knowledgeable dude on VZi
Road test should show any clutch issues when the dmf starts to go it will be felt in the form of vibration up the pedal and through the whole car if the clutch dont slip when you boot it in 4th gear it should be fine try pulling away in top with the hand brake on it should stall the engine, all gears should be smooth up and down.
Well I didn't try it with the handbrake on but ok other than that.. no vibration or clutch slip.
Though looking at the interweb a new DMF & Clutch etc is cheaper than any of the insurance quotes I've had (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
Well I didn't try it with the handbrake on but ok other than that.. no vibration or clutch slip.
Though looking at the interweb a new DMF & Clutch etc is cheaper than any of the insurance quotes I've had
Apparently Chris Knott are better for the old Mondeo owners. No good for me as they only like the over 25 owners...(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Yep, you get to a point where no matter how well you check a car over and use all your knowledge and all the advice you can get, sometimes a car can seem perfect on that day but still end up breaking. You have to buy something at some point, all you are doing is trying to reduce the odds that something will break / has broken - but you can't eliminate the risk entirely
Wise words CP (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/old.gif)
I've bought at least 3 cars which fell exactly into that description, the knack is after realising that it's a lemon, usually after spending a couple of hundred pounds on different issues, cut your losses and get shut of it period (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Is it an estate?
Nope its in a state.
Quoting: Andy
Apparently Chris Knott are better for the old Mondeo owners. No good for me as they only like the over 25 owners...
Weird, been with them for 19 months now.... We were both under 25 when they insured us... (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Quoting: F Body
I've bought at least 3 cars which fell exactly into that description, the knack is after realising that it's a lemon, usually after spending a couple of hundred pounds on different issues, cut your losses and get shut of it period
Indeed I learnt that lesson with the Fiero, there's a car that should have gone straight back on EBay! It didn't even complete the journey home!!(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
Quoting: F Body
Quoting: Incursus
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Is it an estate?
Nope its in a state.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/funny.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Quoting: F Body
£3k ain't shed money, but it's a heck of lot of greenbacks for a high mileage motor
Well replacing another suspension part on the 5yr old 92k miles Panda today (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)
Already done both front drop link bars, one last month and the other the month before. Due to another nasty knocking noise it's the nearside track rod end today (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
I seem to be replacing at least one part a month now, which is what you have to expect when your heading towards 100k (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
Quoting: F Body
I seem to be replacing at least one part a month now, which is what you have to expect when you buy a Fiat...
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Quoting: Titsy
Quoting: F Body
I seem to be replacing at least one part a month now, which is what you have to expect when you buy Italian...
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: F Body
I seem to be replacing at least one part a month now, which is what you have to expect when your wife always drives it like she stole it !
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: F Body
I seem to be replacing at least one part a month now, which is nearly as often as i have to polish the exhaust on the maro ..(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
Quoting: Andy
Admiral was only £400
Yeah Admiral have been the cheapest so far with, I will give Chris Knott a call though.
Chris Knott...Very helpful but can't do anything without 1 years no claims and all my no claims is on the Mustang, for the moment.
Maybe next year.
Quoting: F Body
I seem to be replacing at least one part a month now, which is what you have to expect when your heading towards 100k
My dad bought a brand new 06 Focus Zetec diesel.
He traded it in 5 years and 116,000 miles later having replaced a £140 alternator and a £40 oil line. He considers himself unlucky on both those parts...
And when I say that's all he replaced, aside from 10 oil filters, 1 set of tyres, and 1 set of brake pads that's all he had to put on it.
He got an average 58mpg, paid 11k for it new and sold it for 4k and that was on trade-in...
If you will buy a (F)ix (I)t (A)gain (T)omorrow...
(the fact Fiat now owns Chrysler and thus Jeep fills me with dread).
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
If you will buy a (F)ix (I)t (A)gain (T)omorrow...
In the Panda's defense most of it's 92k miles have been short journeys around town with plenty of speed bumps and pot holes.
It's on it's third set of front discs and 4th set of tyres and management drives like she stole it and it's still on the original clutch. It's only had a new water pump under warranty and a glow plug control unit.
The Body work has gashes and dents all over it from other drivers in city centre car parks, but zero rust. Overall I can't really fault it's performance, I'd happily buy another and would be pleased if it gave another 5 and a half years of motoring like this one (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Because I'm sad when it comes to stats I just worked out the running cost of his new car including depreciation, diesel (assuming an ave £1.20/L over the last 5 years), road tax, insurance, MOT's, std servicing, tyres, repairs etc.
Works out at 17.5p per mile.
Slightly better than my Camaro at £2.32p per mile (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Suffice to say, its been rather more impressive than the POS mustnag, aka the worst car in the world EVER.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif) Thought this was an American car forum...
Mind you, same could be said for the 5 pages about Mondeos (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
She's home 59.4 mpg
Like a charmer... cruise i take it with a Ghia model?
Pics?
Quoting: Andy
Like a charmer... cruise i take it with a Ghia model?
Yup cruise, auto lights, self dipping rear view mirror, fancy stereo etc (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
lol it's a Black Mondeo.
Note to self: Don't press the Trafficmaster button again! Some woman started yelling directions and traffic reports at me...also when trying to get her to shut up dialed a call center somewhere (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
lights, self dipping rear view mirror, fancy stereo
Suppose it is going to feel modern & well speced compared to a Mustang (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Just make sure you don't put petrol in it (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Quoting: Andy
cruise i take it with a Ghia model?
Cruise Control is on all models. As is heated front screen and A/C. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Quoting: Andy
cruise i take it with a Ghia model?
Cruise Control is on all models. As is heated front screen and A/C
No backlight on my steering wheel switches, yours the same?
Bought service items today oil, fuel, and air filter, injector cleaner and engine flush for £26.
Gotta love Car Spares in Stony (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
I'd probably suggest (GASP !!) that it's the most reliable car in the combined MKB fleet - and it's a Mundano !!
Ford sell loads of them (and Focii and Festers) for good reason...
The only fly in the ointment is higher depreciation vs say a Golf due ot the fact that they do indeed sell so many...
I stand by my opinion that Ford make some of the most reliable cars for sale in the UK, and without being dull to drive like their Japanese equivalents.
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Ford sell loads of them (and Focii and Festers) for good reason...
Indeed the Fester was in 1st place with 103,013 sales, whilst the Fockus was in 3rd place with 77,804 (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Industry-News/UK-2010-car-sales-analysis-winners-and-losers/
However the Moondayo only had 29,790 sales,compared to the BMW 3 Series with sales of 42.020 (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/272134/new_mondeo_spied.html
Ford as a company was in 15th place overall (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)
Quoting: Incursus
No backlight on my steering wheel switches, yours the same?
Yep - easy to remember, though. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Quoting: Incursus
No backlight on my steering wheel switches, yours the same?
Yep - easy to remember, though.
Fair enough, at least they're not broken.
Speaking of broken I thought my intermittent wipers were knackered....until I realised it has automatic wipers (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
I'd probably suggest (GASP !!) that it's the most reliable car in the combined MKB fleet - and it's a Mundano !!
Hmmmmm........I'd suggest its actually the 166..
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
25,000 miles / 4 years with no mechanical defects past service items. its very hard to ignore the fact its been a VERY reliable car.
Given the amount of grief and jokes I got for buying it, i feel its my duty to point that out....
Quoting: F Body
Ford as a company was in 15th place overall
The current model Ka being the worst car available in the UK today wont help them, but both ford and Vauxhall have taken a major battering recently in the reliability ratings - they just cant seem to get consistency with reliability.
meanwhile fiat group market share is growing very rapidly, and no surprise, if you want granite like build, Germany or Japan are miles out in front.
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Hmmmmm........I'd suggest its actually the 166..
25,000 miles / 4 years with no mechanical defects past service items. its very hard to ignore the fact its been a VERY reliable car.
hardly enough use to qualify... (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Hmmmmm........I'd suggest its actually the 166..
Not to point out the (accidental, I'm sure) omissions on your list but didn't you replace a failed engine mount, too ?
That seems pretty poor to me for such a low mileage car (or is that a service item, too ?)
And there were other parts - we had bits arriving on a regular basis. You even listed them as you brought them but I forget, now . . . .
Quoting: art b
hardly enough use to qualify...
Exactly.
That's more "toy" mileage, rather than actual use.
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Given the amount of grief and jokes I got for buying it, i feel its my duty to point that out....
I think that stemed from the fact that you brought a SECOND one after the first failed so epically.
I'm sure if you'd have brought a second Mustang (judging by the reliability Chris has had) that would've been fine also. Not that I'm a fan of the Mustang - Just feel it's my duty to point out the obvious.
Mine took a step closer to 190,000 today.
Been taking it fairly easy on the mleage recently as I need her to get through the winter. Might even have to put front tyres on her soon. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)
Bloody money pit. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
I plan to sell her at 200,000 miles then treat myself to something a little less . . . . .
Quoting: philoldsmobile
completely average and uninteresting...
. . . . Like a 300C
Quoting: Roadkill
then treat myself to something a little less . . . . .
Quoting: philoldsmobile
completely average and uninteresting...
. . . . Like a 300C
Great looking car (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
I've been looking for one for a while, but there isn't anything half decent for under £7k (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Given the amount of grief and jokes I got for buying it, i feel its my duty to point that out....
I think that stemed from the fact that you brought a SECOND one after the first failed so epically.
I'm sure if you'd have brought a second Mustang (judging by the reliability Chris has had) that would've been fine also. Not that I'm a fan of the Mustang - Just feel it's my duty to point out the obvious.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/plusone.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Exactly.
That's more "toy" mileage, rather than actual use.
25,000 is more miles than you've done in the mondeo......
Quoting: philoldsmobile
25,000 is more miles than you've done in the mondeo......
I did 80k in my MK2 Mondeo in 4 years..
From what I can remember needed fixing to keep it on the road:
Front coil spring
Oil pressure switch
Front wishbone bushes on one side
Starter Motor
Welding on both rear arch seals near seat-belt mountings
Other items broken but not replaced:
Driver's window (wiring I think, still worked, just had to move the wiring about)
Idle hunting (occasional hunting on idle - crank-speed sensor I think)
Boot unlock button (had to use the keys to open)
Remote Central locking (central locking still worked)
CV Joint clunking at low-speed turning (could have been tie-rod ball-joint)
Then service items:
Countless oil changes, plugs, discs pads etc.
Quoting: philoldsmobile
25,000 is more miles than you've done in the mondeo......
O.K.
I know maths isn't a strong point of yours, clearly but -
25,000 miles in 4 years equals 6,250 (roughly) miles per year.
19,000 miles in 8 months equals (roughly) 28,500 miles per year.
28,500 is FOUR AND A HALF TIMES 6,250.
So.
If, over the next 4 years, instead of achieving 25,000 miles in your Alfa, aim for 114,000 miles.
My point being, as everyone else appeared to understand, is that your Alfa clocks what I referred to a "Toy" mileage. The Mondeo's owned within the MKB are workhorses and treated as such and yet they still perform admirably.
Do you really believe your Alfa will reach 190,000 miles with just """"""servicing"""""" costs ?
Quoting: Roadkill
O.K.
I know maths isn't a strong point of yours, clearly but -
25,000 miles in 4 years equals 6,250 (roughly) miles per year.
19,000 miles in 8 months equals (roughly) 28,500 miles per year.
28,500 is FOUR AND A HALF TIMES 6,250.
So.
If, over the next 4 years, instead of achieving 25,000 miles in your Alfa, aim for 114,000 miles.
My point being, as everyone else appeared to understand, is that your Alfa clocks what I referred to a "Toy" mileage. The Mondeo's owned within the MKB are workhorses and treated as such and yet they still perform admirably.
Do you really believe your Alfa will reach 190,000 miles with just """"""servicing"""""" costs ?
Phil jus' got served! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
I know it causes pain, but even Stevie Wonder can see - the alfa is NOT an unreliable car, quite the opposite.
Trigger's broom was reliable too, never let him down. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
Quoting: philoldsmobile
I know it causes pain, but even Stevie Wonder can see
(http://www.omgsoysauce.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/stevie-wonder-backwards-mic.jpg)
nuff' said...
my 1st "contribution" to this thread about 'daily drivers'...
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Anyway, back to other people's purchases...
Look - another Mondeo Owner:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7DOFMfeVCRY/S6QcFcrmyvI/AAAAAAAAAGw/HlI4kXIw7yE/S660/14nov28-keeping-it-weird.jpg\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" width=150>[img]http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/owned.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
But I'm not saying what it is.
Have you 'left the klub'? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
Quoting: Andy
Quoting: Cunning Plan
But I'm not saying what it is.
Have you 'left the klub'?
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/banned.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
Quoting: Cunning Plan
Only when you tell us what this is:
meh....