Author Topic: Tell me about caravans! (Read 2288 times)

Cunning Plan · « **on:** August 21, 2010, 06:19:53 pm »

No p1ss taking please

Okay, I have some holiday booked and guessed I would pick up some late deals on the EuroStar, but after looking at my passport and realising that you have to have X amount of time AFTER your visit to the country valid on the expire date, means no EuroStar for us.

So, next plan was for somewhere in England. Fail. Most places are booked.

So, I was looking at getting an old caravan and using it for a week or so, then selling it on if I didn't want to keep it - even taking a slight drop in cash to move it on quickly.

Found a couple 'cheapies' to go look at tomorrow for around the £800 - £1500 mark.

Anyone know what to look for on these things?

Can you do / is it worth doing a 'caravan HPI' check?

Is there a caravan 'V5' / ownership document?

F Body · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2010, 07:06:11 pm »

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Anyone know what to look for on these things?

I've had a few caravans, first thing to look for is damp from water leaks, most vans will leak at a seam sometime and it can cause major damage.
Secondly on the older vans chassis rust, assuming that their is some chassis left to rust !
Newer vans will have a galvanized chassis so it won't be a problem, also have a good look at the tyres, spliting side walls is common due to sitting outside not being used.
I major consideration has to be weight, i.e what is the towing capacity of the vehicle you are going to tow with it ?
Also a point I tend to forget being

but if you passed your test after 1985? you need an additional test to tow

Their is no V5 and plenty of caravans are stolen, but I believe their is a database where your can enter the chassis No. to check ?

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2010, 07:24:37 pm »

Thanks FB, all useful points.

Quoting: F Body

Also a point I tend to forget being but if you passed your test after 1985? you need an additional test to tow

Totally correct, but I have a towing licence (B+C I think it is?)

I think I can tow up to 3.5 tons..

Quoting: F Body

I major consideration has to be weight, i.e what is the towing capacity of the vehicle you are going to tow with it ?

Yah, good point again. Most I have seen are 800 - 1000kg, so well within the Mondeo's capacity.

BTW, How was emptying the cassette toilet?

Is it just a case of fill the thing to the brim with nice smelling chemcials that breaks 'stuff' up, then just empty into the thing at the camp site?

Also, how does the 'flush' work on them? Is there like a big tank you fill up with water that gets pumped into the bowl when you flush?

EVERYONE ELSE - I appologies for this thread - probably the worst I have started (minus meatspin).

HardRockCamaro · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2010, 07:55:24 pm »

Given what this is going to cost you why not just use a big arse tent and keep it?

Andy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2010, 07:59:36 pm »

Pretty sure chemical bogs just eat it...

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2010, 08:15:08 pm »

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

[
toilet, proper-ish bed I guess..

I just don't really like tents for anymore than a night, and even then uber tired in the morning etc..

Plus, I don't know why, I just like towing stuff..

Quote from: Andy

Pretty sure chemical bogs just eat it..

Ah, that must be the 'organic chemical' I've been reading about..

ianjpage · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2010, 08:40:21 pm »

right then - what you wanna know ... had caravans fer many years and use em at the shows!

Buying - as been said, check for signs of damp / leaks - if you see it walk away... basically look for coregated card effect on the inner walls and also if its soft and "crunches" then not good.

Rust - as been said check the chasis to ensure it's safe and not shot to pieces...

Tyres - if its been stood for any length of time then new tyres are a must - i've seen 1st hand the damage a blown tyre does - it aint nice...also if the tyres are 3-4 years old i'd change em again - cost about 50 quid for a steel belted radial each - well worth it when if it goes it could wreck the van and the towing vehicle!!

Towing hitch - make sure it works - does it have reverse lockout - makes life a lot easier - check for grease in the hitch ball socket, should have some in there - make sure the handbrake works / releases easy - also should really have a brake away cable.

Elec's - make sure at teh minimum the rear lights work - also check the wiring inside (normally under one of the front seats) - do the interior lights work etc.

Caravan hpi check - not really worth it IMO, just make sure you buy it from somewhere that looks reputable and you go to the person's house to see/collect it.

No ownership document at all - so make sure you get a detailed receiupt with their name / address / phone no on it as well as yours - ensure it has chasis number of the c/van or a good description at minimum.

Chemical toilets - kinda - what you do is put the "blue" chemical in the bottom, then depending on the size add several litres of water - as a guide make the water / blue checmical mix about 2" deep in the bottom...normall the blue checmical has marks on it to show how much to add , then you add the "pink" flush checmical and loads of water (again it shows you on the bottle the dosage per water amount) and basically the pink stuff flushes "it" away, sanitises and deodorises the toilet whereas the blue stuff is the stuff that eats it - if you go to most sites then have a chamical toilet dump - use it as your not really spose to stick it down the normal sewers.

Hope that helps ya mate - if you need more info, just ask!

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2010, 09:16:14 am »

Ian, that's more than helpful, thanks chap!!

Going to look at a few this afternoon..

philoldsmobile · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2010, 04:24:07 pm »

Quoting: F Body

Also a point I tend to forget being but if you passed your test after 1985? you need an additional test to tow

much later than that - I passed in 95 and have B+E - I think the cut off is january 1996 (at the same time 7.5 tonne and a few other categories were taken off)

other stuff is pretty much covered by ian, just to clarify a few points though..

breakaway cable is a legal requirement, and make sure you get reinforced tyres, standard car tyres are no good. avon 'supervan' tyres are supposed to be good.

legal lighting requirements are 2x rear tail lights, number plate light, 2x brake lights and front side lights (Many people overlook this)

its also a legal requirement to have red triangle reflectors on the rear (the ol bill are surprisingly hot on this) and highly recommended to have amber reflectors at each end on the side, at waist height.

for the astro, you want to load slightly nose heavy, and be careful to check the manufacturers maximum loading, its usually about 200 - 250Kg - caravans aren't intended to be used as trailers!

Big Mouse · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:02:02 am »

The relevant date is January 1997 - if you passed your test since then you will need an additional test

Roadkill · « **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:25:52 am »

Just read this :

Car licences obtained on or after 1 January 1997 :

If you passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 you're limited to vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass towing a trailer up to 750kgs, or a vehicle and trailer combination up to 3.5 tonnes MAM providing the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. You will need to pass an additional driving test in B+E if you wish to tow a caravan or trailer combination which exceeds these weight limits.

Does that mean I can tow a little light trailer, then (I passed in May 2000) ?

Doesn't that say you're O.K if, for example your car is 1500kgs and the caravan is 1000kgs (total 2500kgs) ??

ianjpage · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2010, 09:21:28 am »

Yeah AFAIK as that's how i get away with it - with the Van weighing in at 2 ton i can tow 1.5 ton without issue.

Well thats how i understand it anyho!!!

Roadkill · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2010, 09:28:07 am »

Seems to read that way . . . you'd obviously not be able to tow a car on a trailer but at least that's something . . .

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2010, 10:00:43 am »

Quoting: ianjpage

Yeah AFAIK as that's how i get away with it - with the Van weighing in at 2 ton i can tow 1.5 ton without issue.

Well thats how i understand it anyho!!

That's how I've understood it too.

Quoting: Roadkill

Seems to read that way . . . you'd obviously not be able to tow a car on a trailer but at least that's something . . .

Depends, if the car is a 'project' and has a lot of the heavy stuff taken off, engine, box, windows etc, you should be fine.

My bus without any of the above was around 800k < and that is giving it some to be safe..

:towing smiley:

Roadkill · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2010, 12:22:57 pm »

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Depends, if the car is a 'project' and has a lot of the heavy stuff taken off, engine, box, windows etc, you should be fine.

Good call.

philoldsmobile · « **Reply #15 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:02:19 pm »

most car trailers are c. 500 - 800kg and often a lot more, empty... in all honesty, you got no chance..

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2010, 08:05:55 am »

Quoting: Roadkill

Doesn't that say you're O.K if, for example your car is 1500kgs and the caravan is 1000kgs (total 2500kgs) ??

Quoting: driveandtow.co.uk

Drivers who have passed their test since 1st January 1997 will only have category B and not have category B+E on their licence. Without this category you will be restricted in the type of trailer you can tow. Category B+E allows you to tow trailers up to 3500kg provided that you do not exceed the towing vehicles towing limit (always refer to your vehicle handbook for its MAM and towing capacities before using it to tow a trailer).

Drivers with only category B on their licence can provisionally tow trailers up to 3500kg if accompanied by a driver who holds category B+E.

http://www.driveandtow.co.uk/80215/info.php?p=5

Quoting: direct.gov

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:
a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Wow, that is confusing. I have understood it as you can tow up to 750kg with a normal licence.

But that reads you can tow a trailer up to 750kg OR a trailer OVER 750kg providing what you put on the trailer doesn't exceed how heavy the towing vehicle is without stuff in - all up to 3.5kg.

So, RK is defiantly right - as long as his towing vehicle is heavier than the trailer and what is on the trailer - but not exceeding a 3.5kg train weight (everything together) - he can tow it on a 'B' licence.

So, he can tow a trailer (500kg) with a project shell loaded (700kg) with a Mondeo (1.4kg) quite happily (total 2.6kg).

The 'B+E' licence means you can use a vehicle that is already at your maximum you are allowed to drive with a standard licence - so 3.5kg THEN add a trailer and load the trailer with whatever you want - as long as it doesn't exceed the capabilities of the tow vehicle.

So, that means uber heavy industrial winch trailer (800kg) with a whole car (1.2kg) being towed with a Land Rover Discovery (2.6kg) - total (4.6kg).

Quoting: philoldsmobile

most car trailers are c. 500 - 800kg and often a lot more, empty... in all honesty, you got no chance..

Naw, he would be fine - for example, when I was towing my bus I went into the weights in detail.

Quoting: Cunning Plan's Notes

Ford Mondeo Weight - @ 1,393 kg
Max. Train Weight - 3,325 kg
Max. Permissible towing capacity @85% - 2,826 kg

Fully built VW T2 Micro Bus - 1,425 kg
Bus with no Engine / Box / Glass - 1,100 - 1,200 kg (800 - 900 kg actual)

Trailer Gross Weight - 400 kg
Max. Trailer Load Weight - 1,200 kg

Total:
Gross Train Weight: 2,993 kg

So, RK could have towed my rig on his licence.

But.

If I loaded a full bus on at 1.4kg, then put some engines in the back to take with me - say 1kg, the total would have been 4.3kg - which would have meant that he couldn't have towed it.

But that wouldn't have happened as the towing vehicle has a maximum towing capacity of 3.3kg, so you couldn't have safely towed anyway - with the Ford Mondeo. If I was using a larger towing vehicle like the Disco, with a B+E licence you could have pulled that with no problems

Roadkill · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2010, 09:43:50 am »

Either way -

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Drivers with only category B on their licence can provisionally tow trailers up to 3500kg if accompanied by a driver who holds category B+E.

Very interesting . . . .

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #18 on:** August 24, 2010, 10:02:03 am »

Quoting: Roadkill

Either way -

Quoting: Cunning Plan
Drivers with only category B on their licence can provisionally tow trailers up to 3500kg if accompanied by a driver who holds category B+E.

Very interesting . . . .

Yes.

Old Skool licences are the ones to have though - drive up to 8ton with 100 people on board, whilst towing a combine harvester and steam rolling the road :

Roadkill · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2010, 10:54:10 am »

art b · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2010, 01:36:58 pm »

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Old Skool licences are the ones to have though - drive up to 8ton with 100 people on board, whilst towing a combine harvester and steam rolling the road

oi give me my licence back......

the old bike test was the best drive round the block, while the bloke judging ya went to the shop for some fags, if ya got back you had passed,

btw. i didnt do that test, i did the... ride with a guy following ya with a radio link,

Cunning Plan · « **Reply #21 on:** August 24, 2010, 02:16:48 pm »

I want your licence Art

What if I want to drive a minibus - FAIL, need to take a test

Andy · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2010, 03:10:14 pm »

I believe my dads bike license was one that you just bought. With that you could drive a three wheeler (read Reliant Supervan in his case) the recent Top Gear episodes were no joke to my dad, that was real life stuff! He loved his van until my mum totalled it on a high curb with a friend. Did a full roll over and dismounted the body from the chassis.

Anyway, back on topic. How does one get a license to drive a steam roller nowadays?

philoldsmobile · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2010, 05:44:35 pm »

you've mis understood something there CP - the 85% is advisory, and its 85% of the tow vehicles kerb side weight, NOT the max train weight, therefore a 1000kg car should not generally tow anything over 850 kg, if you were to tow over 1000kg with a 1000kg car, you are entering into a whole world of further restrictions, such as the blanket 40 mph limit, and B+E license

its on the kerb weight, not GVW, although if the GVW and the trailer combined go over 3.5T its too heavy regardless. confusing, but the basic rule is simple, 85% of the KERB weight of the tow vehicle, provided both combined are under 3.5t

Quoting: gocaravaning.com

Car to Caravan weight ratio

It is recommended that you do not exceed an 85% caravan to car weight ratio. This means that your caravan, fully loaded, should not be more than 85% of your cars kerb-weight (or max tow weight if this is lower). If you are an experienced caravaner you can go up to 100% weight ration but this is not recommended. If the caravan is more than the kerb-weight of the car and you are stopped by the Police you could be prosecuted.

so with a mondeo about 1100 kg is really the limit.

http://www.gocaravanning.com/caravans/using/towing_guide.htm

philoldsmobile · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2010, 05:46:59 pm »

Quoting: Cunning Plan

So, he can tow a trailer (500kg) with a project shell loaded (700kg) with a Mondeo (1.4kg) quite happily (total 2.6kg).

only just PROVIDED it falls under fords recomendation, ad i'll gess its just a bit too heavy..

if he's never towed before, its gonna be an exciting ride *sway city*