Author Topic: Gutted - Camaro wouldn't start. (Read 5469 times)

F Body · « **on:** January 09, 2011, 05:19:22 pm »

Well the writing was on the wall last week when for the first time in her life the old Gal didn't fire up straight away

Finally decided at 14pm today that it was dry enough to go out for a run

Unlocked the garage, took the cover off, disconnected the trickle charger and turned the key ..................

The engine spun over well, but not a sign of it actually firing, tried about six times, nothing, zero, zilch, no bananas

Turned the alarm on and off a few times and tried cranking it over whilst pumping the accelerator, still nothing

I haven't touched the ignition or fuel circuits, but on a modern electronically controlled engine it can be any number of things, this is where Roadkill reminds me that all he needs is a spark and some fuel

So got my OBD2 Palm computer out and after running the diagnostics twice it still said "no faults found". Turned the engine over and it was reading the rpm, so I was confident that the crankshaft sensor was OK and the MAF sensor was detecting air flow

Went inside to have a look through the official GM Service/Repair manuals and Senior F Body Kid Rosa asked me what was wrong. I had a look at the fault sections and started to wonder if it was a fault with the extremely complex Clifford alarm and immobiliser

Returned to garage and started to look for a spare spark plug to check to see if she was sparking ?

Senior F Body Kid then turned up with a page she had printed from Goggle after inputting " 1999 Camaro won't start "

Whilst humouring her she asked " Have you got Petrol ? " Yes full tank thank you.

Is the battery OK ? Yes cranked the engine over for nearly 10 minutes without slowing down.

Is the ignition key faulty ? 3rd & 4th Gen Camaro's have a small resistor in the key. I replied that firstly that the key has never been dangled around with a bunch of keys and given the mileage should not be worn out

Well she said it say's here to try the spare key

So I get the spare key out of the safe and the Camaro starts first turn of the key

She is now dancing around the garage asking me who is the "Don" so I have been well and truly

So forget computer diagnostics, years of engine experience, just Goggle it

F Body · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2011, 05:24:47 pm »

Just measured the working resistor and on the 20 ohm setting it showed 2.97 ohms

Time to search the net, I've seen them for sale somewhere

F Body · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2011, 05:47:07 pm »

There are 15 different key resistor values :

This chart is for any GM product, Buick, Cadillac, Oldsombile, Chevrolet, and Pontiac that has a VATS key (single or double-sided.)

VATS # (K)OHMS (Set your meter to the 20k ohm setting)

1———— 0.402
2———— 0.523
3———— 0.681
4————-0.887
5————-1.130
6————-1.470
7————-1.870
8————-2.370
9————-3.010
10————3.740
11————4.750
12————6.040
13————7.500
14————9.530
15————11.801

So the nearest one to mine is No.9 = 3.010

Although it's not difficult to bypass the whole system :

http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

HardRockCamaro · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2011, 06:25:12 pm »

Haha! I recon you should give the car to Rosa as clearly you have no idea what you're doing...

F Body · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2011, 06:56:35 pm »

Found the GM part No.2852563, on E-bay for $9.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-VATS-Key-Blank-Single-Sided-Cadillac-Chevy-Ponitac-/290513588614?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a3f59186#shId

Interestingly Bauer Millet in Manchester have it listed on their obsolete parts listing, but no price so I've sent them an e-mail :

http://www.gmparts.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page_6

HardRockCamaro · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2011, 07:27:24 pm »

Make sure you let us know how much they want, I could do with a laugh...

ianjpage · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2011, 09:56:09 pm »

lol definately

lol

art b · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2011, 10:25:45 pm »

you,ve polished it to death.....

Dawn.. had the same problem with hers at eddies last year,

Roadkill · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2011, 08:17:51 am »

Quoting: F Body

Finally decided at 14pm

Is that like 2am ?

Quoting: F Body

So I get the spare key out of the safe and the Camaro starts first turn of the key

Didn't Shifty have this exact same problem with his car a few months back ?

Glad it was an easy fix - never underestimate the power of Google !!

philoldsmobile · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2011, 01:10:33 pm »

Quoting: F Body

tried cranking it over whilst pumping the accelerator,

noooooooooooooooooooooo, NEVER NEVER NEVER do this with an injected engine, you never touch the throttle hot or cold when starting, the ECU will determine how much fuel to inject.

at best you're just doing nothing, at worst its going to confuse the hell out of it.

Google gives you both the benefit of years of experience, and also other peoples solutions.

chip in the key though? as its a resister as opposed to a chip (shifties immobiliser uses a chip, so there is capacity for that to fail), its unlikely to be the key itself, sounds like the beginning of the dreaded VATS problems that thirdgens suffer from, getting the spare key simply allowed the system enough time to reset itself.

it also could be attributed to lack of use - the contacts that connect with the resistor may have built up a tiny layer of corrosion, either causing a bad contact, or altering the resistance enough for the ECU to think its the wrong key.

you really need to drive the car more...

art b · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2011, 01:30:59 pm »

one of my previous v70's had a problem similar....the immobilizer antenna ring was faulty/dirty or loose,
a quick dismantle wipe and reassembly cured it, but they can be known faults

FUBAR · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2011, 05:49:44 pm »

Quoting: philoldsmobile

sounds like the beginning of the dreaded VATS problems that thirdgens suffer

Thats what i'm edging towards thinking actually...

Quoting: philoldsmobile

getting the spare key simply allowed the system enough time to reset itself

3min timer on VATS Lockout

Quoting: philoldsmobile

it also could be attributed to lack of use - the contacts that connect with the resistor may have built up a tiny layer of corrosion, either causing a bad contact, or altering the resistance enough for the ECU to think its the wrong key.

Thats certainly possible.

(

I just agreed with PhilO on 3 things in a row!!... good job its about Camaros

)

Fieldy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2011, 07:56:51 pm »

Simply, IMO, it just needs using more.

No car, for whatever reason, benefits from little use.

But, your car is so clean & well looked after, I still envy the love and work gone into it so well done to you.

Andy · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2011, 08:01:50 pm »

Easy solution, leave the key in it...

We had the same with our third gen about 2-3 years ago, left over the winter, tried starting it to get it going Spring time and the VATS unit died, (apparently they can become permanently fecked if messed about with).

Got it trailered to AutoPontiac and had a set of new keys, barrel and VATS system fitted. Won't say how much that all cost.

Incursus · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2011, 07:37:58 am »

Quoting: Andy

Easy solution, leave the key in it...

Great idea......What's your address again Martyn?

Roadkill · « **Reply #15 on:** January 11, 2011, 08:16:14 am »

Tear all that dodgy computer controlled rubbish out, Martyn, and stick a carb on - That'll sort it !!

F Body · « **Reply #16 on:** January 11, 2011, 12:36:47 pm »

Quoting: Incursus

Quoting: Andy
Easy solution, leave the key in it...

Great idea......What's your address again Martyn?

Technically i could leave the key in the ignition because it won't start until you enter the Clifford imobiliser code, but I still don't think it's a good idea

Quoting: Roadkill

Tear all that dodgy computer controlled rubbish out, Martyn, and stick a carb on - That'll sort it !!

Until the next MOT

Quoting: F Body

Interestingly Bauer Millet in Manchester have it listed on their obsolete parts listing, but no price so I've sent them an e-mail :

Still no reply so I've just ordered this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140498837850&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Roadkill · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2011, 03:18:17 pm »

Quoting: F Body

Until the next MOT

In fairness there is no carb manifold for the LS.

And a carb won't effect the MoT - Only the emissions and most american V8's run very clean - even older ones.

EDGE · « **Reply #18 on:** January 11, 2011, 03:39:45 pm »

Quoting: Roadkill

And a carb won't effect the MoT - Only the emissions and most american V8's run very clean - even older ones.

I would think that most modern US engines run very clean due to a LOT of effort on the ECU mapping.... I doubt its a product of the americans renowned tight tollerences

Roadkill · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2011, 05:00:22 pm »

Quoting: EDGE

I would think that most modern US engines run very clean due to a LOT of effort on the ECU mapping

Nope.

My '67 Dodge and My '83 Z28 passed emissions easy with V8's - neither had ECU.

Even the '58 only just failed (not that it was relavent).

I've known of many others to pass easily, too.

HardRockCamaro · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2011, 06:49:05 pm »

Yes but your 67 Dodge passed 67 emissions.

Even the Z would be unlikely to pass 99/00 emissions.

You need the ECU and fuel injection to meet modern emissions. A carb has absolutely no chance.

Roadkill · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2011, 10:39:02 am »

I'll have to speak to my MoTer next time I see him as I remember him being utterly amazed how low the emissions were the first time I took the Z28 to him - said it was cleaner than the previous car he'd tested.

F Body · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:40:33 pm »

Quoting: Roadkill

I'll have to speak to my MoTer next time I see him

and make sure he has flame proof overalls for when the mother fecker spits flames out of the exhausts

Roadkill · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:50:44 pm »

Yeah, I'm sure the "new" Z28 wouldn't pass emissions . . . .

philoldsmobile · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:44:55 am »

Quoting: Roadkill

In fairness there is no carb manifold for the LS.

except this one...
http://www.eautoworks.com/product-JG-Edelbrock-198360.htm

Back on topic though, you gotta start driving the car more martyn...you're killing it.