Quoting: EDGE
you may be able to fix that by fitting a higher discharge coil, re gapping
Yeah from memory it ended up runing race plugs with virtualy no gap, also you need to be sure its fueling enough as detonation on turbo engines will destroy an engine and pluds in a very short time
Quoting: 55starchief
Im gonna guess that there is to much boost and it is blowing the spark out, my boss had this on his subaru, will ask how they solved it tomorrow
Nah doubt it mate, as its misfiring when at idle with 0 boost.....
Quoting: EDGE
you may be able to fix that by fitting a higher discharge coil, re gapping and then indexing the plugs, which means getting them facing the right way in the hole...
Hmm may keep that in mind - gunna go through the obvious first (plugs, leads, coil, rotor, distribtuer etc) then see where we at!
Quoting: 55starchief
also you need to be sure its fueling enough
Now that (thankfully) is uber easy - its got a nice digital mixture reading box in the car shows you if it running lean, correct or too rich!!!!
Mean Machine (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: ianjpage
BIG Turbo Charger (the gauge reads up to 30psi boost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Haven't got into this turbo/intercooly thing yet, lets practice ?
Whistle, pop , bang , fart (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
That's a bit out of the blue . . . . . or did I miss something ?
yeah the last AAC uk event mate when he had already decided
Quoting: 55starchief
Ian after looking through my NGK catalog here are the plugs available.
NGK Iridium UR5IX #7177 these are road use
Hot R5674-6 #4449
Medium R5674-8 #5657 These are all race plugs, might need to try a cold or medium plug
Cold R5674-10 #6702
After calling NGK about plugs for my motor your out of luck as they dont carry any of those plugs i listed above mate.
Quoting: 55starchief
Ian after looking through my NGK catalog here are the plugs available.
NGK Iridium UR5IX #7177 these are road use
Hot R5674-6 #4449
Medium R5674-8 #5657 These are all race plugs, might need to try a cold or medium plug
Cold R5674-10 #6702
OK Cheers, will check wot it got in it at some point!
Quoting: Roadkill
That's a bit out of the blue . . . . . or did I miss something ?
Quoting: Roadkill
I knew he liked them - just missed the "going out to buy one" bit . . .
LOL well i been mulling it over for a while, specially as the grande just been sitting fer ages, and after several chats with Mr R, it was decided upon!
Quoting: ianjpage
LOL well i been mulling it over for a while, specially as the grande just been sitting fer ages, and after several chats with Mr R, it was decided upon!
Fairs enough !
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: ianjpage
after several chats with Mr R, it was decided upon!
You can buy cars from other people you know (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Fairs enough !
Yeah means i can have fun hehehe
Quoting: F Body
You can buy cars from other people you know
No surley not............hehe (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)
Quoting: ianjpage
Yeah means i can have fun hehehe
Yup cant wait to get along side you on the strip, seems like your gonna be the only competion from the MKB camp
Quoting: 55starchief
Yup cant wait to get along side you on the strip, seems like your gonna be the only competion from the MKB camp
Yeah dunno how regular tho cos of $$$$
Quoting: EDGE
yeah.. i dont think I'll even be running in the series this coming year.. especially with a house purchase looming :(
Shame but fair enough mate
Quoting: philoldsmobile
a quick blat round the block revealed about 4 pots firing... then, just before the redline, all 6 chimed in, the damned thing nearly took off, then started spinning the wheels.... at the top end of 2nd gear, just before 3rd
Its eeeeeevil i tell ya eeeeeeeeevil heheheheh
Quoting: Pod
So, it's still two cylinders short but with a hair dryer on top.
yeah but with 290bhp and 350ft/lb torque as stock it aint short of power!! (and seeing as this un aint stock i really wanna know what power its putting out!!
Quoting: EDGE
wow... theyre quite powerful then, i knew they were quick but i didnt realise the numbers were that high.
EDGE
Yeah i knew the BHP was similar to the cobra, didn't realise the torque so high tho - but ti all good (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: Finlay
COPY CAT
Nice one Ian...There a Bizar thing & real FAST.
loads of info on
www.syty.netIm fitting a rear sway bar and lowering ours 2" (bits arrive tomorrow)
Fitted a blow off valve and a stainless Boost pipe last weekend
Still got to fit a K&N and Im away
Lets see some pics of the engine bay then
lol, im not a copy cat - you are really, cos i said to Dave i were intersted in them when he first got em in early part of this year (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
yeah real fast stock and with teh mods this got UBer fast hehe
Cheers fer the link - added to the growing list i got (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
hmm what benefit do they give ya then mate????
Will get some decent pics when its still light outside (prob the weekend)
ok where you get & how much for them?
Yeah aint it nice our own cosy lil room hehehe
also how much you doing the phoon exhaust systems for then (same as your setup!) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif) ???
Quoting: ianjpage
hmm what benefit do they give ya then mate????
Ian you need to be running a colder plug something with a heat index of >8 get the part number of your current plug then call NGK UK and tell them what boost etc and they will give you the correct heat rating.
Be careful with rice tunners most dont have a clue TDI in london wrecked my boss's evo 6 engine when they fitted the wrong plugs and the over boost caused them to fail which in turn destroyed the piston and top end
Quoting: Finlay
(Correct) Irridiium Plugs....... 50% Less voltage to make the same spark, Long life under harsh conditions, no Gapping, More intence spark..... Its why they sit above the Platinum in the NGK range
Thats all great for fuel economy but high performance engines require a colder plug mate as the electrodes get heated more than in standard aplication.
The corrct heta rating will make a hell of a difference in power more than the electrode material
Quoting: Finlay
(Arriving TODAY!!!) Electric Exhaust Cutout Dynoflow ERV 3"..... Fitted just after the Down pipe.... Reduces back pressure to near Zero.... Just what the Turbo wants on the drag strip........ Also got to be good fun at the Shows and at Asda's.
Also you will need some length on the system mate as it will help increase the boost pressure, by chopping the system to close your probably gonna be loosing power.
Trust me on this i have always owned turbo cars and been involved in some pretty serious turbo engines like a 4cylinder 1500cc turbo engine running at 4.5bar making 1200hp with 8 injectors and 16 spark plugs. Dont believe everything you read on ricer forums.
Example mitsubishi colt turbo with stock system V stainless free flow picked up 5lb of boost on a full length system
Quoting: Finlay
The Correct Rated Plug is a Correct rated Plug, ...Errr So it would be correct... lol
There is a full range of Irridium plugs Avialable
no mate the correct rated plug is not always the best plug its the one that will give the best operation under standard conditions. When you modify an engine there is increased heat build up and the plug starts to break down. By going to a colder plug this no longer happens. But hey its your motor so do what you like but having worked on high HP motors both turbo and N/A i can tell you that the correct heat rating is more important than anything else.
Quoting: Finlay
Please explain how back pressure makes a Turbo make more boost?
Its not the bck pressure as i said i high flow system, its the scavenge caused by the length of pipe. I ran my 9000 turbo without a system just to see what it would be like and lost 15mph of of the top speed. and this was a 275hp motor.
If you could gain more power by having little to no exhaust do you not think that the WRC teams would be doing the same, hell they already run the CATs in the rear silencer so why not run with no system
Quoting: 55starchief
no mate the correct rated plug is not always the best plug its the one that will give the best operation under standard conditions. When you modify an engine there is increased heat build up and the plug starts to break down. By going to a colder plug this no longer happens. But hey its your motor so do what you like but having worked on high HP motors both turbo and N/A i can tell you that the correct heat rating is more important than anything else.
This is exactly what Im saying. ..lol...... The Correct plug for a Motors tune is the correct plug.... Go for the correct heat setting and you have the correct plug(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif) The Irridium plugs have benefits over the Platinum plugs......life span being one of them. So buy the correct plug for your engine and you have the correct plug....as its correct!!!
Quoting: 55starchief
Its not the bck pressure as i said i high flow system, its the scavenge caused by the length of pipe. I ran my 9000 turbo without a system just to see what it would be like and lost 15mph of of the top speed. and this was a 275hp motor.
If you could gain more power by having little to no exhaust do you not think that the WRC teams would be doing the same, hell they already run the CATs in the rear silencer so why not run with no system
The rules and Regs of WRC mean an Exhaust system has to be pressent.... as its ment to be a version of a road car...
Look at the old F1 car Turbo systems, and Turbo Drag Car system's, Ya dont see 8ft of pipe hanging out the back of them
Quoting: Finlay
This is exactly what Im saying. ..lol...... The Correct plug for a Motors tune is the correct plug.... Go for the correct heat setting and you have the correct plug The Irridium plugs have benefits over the Platinum plugs......life span being one of them. So buy the correct plug for your engine and you have the correct plug....as its correct!!!
Indeed but the iridiums are only 1 heat setting, all race plugs are standard electrode mate as no one is bothered by the fact they will last 50k
Quoting: Finlay
The rules and Regs of WRC mean an Exhaust system has to be pressent.... as its ment to be a version of a road car...
Look at the old F1 car Turbo systems, and Turbo Drag Car system's, Ya dont see 8ft of pipe hanging out the back of them
Trust me mate if there was a power increase to be had they would find a way around the rules, my mate builds these systems for a living just ask Ian as he has met the guy. Also i know all about the old turbo F1 cars as i used to crew for a mate that raced euroboss in a 1984 lola beatrice with a hart turbo motor thats the one i listed above. The system on that was much longer than the systems on the non turbo cars of the later years.
Anyways as said its your car lets see what you have at the track im gonna be there with the purple people eater next year and that thing is looking forward to eating a few turbo storms (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/roll.gif)
Quoting: Pod
Finlay, at the track do some runs with the exhaust cutout closed, and some runs with it open (ideally on the same day to cover weather and track condition). Then see if there is any difference.
Yeah although the full system would be road use rather than tuned for the turbo. The perfect ssytem would increase in diameter over its entire length accelerating the gases and spooling the turbo up
Quoting: 55starchief
increase in diameter over its entire length accelerating the gases
doesn't gas move slower in a larger tube exhaust?
Quoting: FUBAR
doesn't gas move slower in a larger tube exhaust?
yup thats how it works mate, as the pipe gets wider the gases are drawn out due to lower speed, but increasing the speed at the smaller part of the pipe
Quoting: Finlay
I Agree with you on that Mr Cheif... But it only needs to be around 1 to 2 ' long at about 15 Deg (If my old 2 stroke days have any relavance)
yeah but you have a lot more cylinders now mate, from memory its like the first 4ft thats mega important on a turbo and about the first 3ft on a N/A system
Quoting: 55starchief
Ian you need to be running a colder plug something with a heat index of >8 get the part number of your current plug then call NGK UK and tell them what boost etc and they will give you the correct heat rating.
Be careful with rice tunners most dont have a clue TDI in london wrecked my boss's evo 6 engine when they fitted the wrong plugs and the over boost caused them to fail which in turn destroyed the piston and top end
fair enough - will have to try and see how easy the plugs are to get out first lol!!
Quoting: Finlay
BOV...... Well not much really as on the auto you dont stall the turbo on gear changes....But it make s the right sound (Mine cost £20 Delivered off ebay...lol)
Hmm might think about one of them if it makes it all noisy hehe
Quoting: Finlay
Cost of a System...... Well I'll build one first and let you know. Id sooner supply you with the components and Pictures to work from for you to weld one up yourself (My welding is good enough for me but Im getting better)
OK sounds fair mate - lemme know
Quoting: Finlay
Yep Im trying to be an Ian Clone...
Mustang and Typhoon on the Drive..lol
Hmm you are rather aint ya ...im scared now!!!! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
Quoting: Finlay
Anyway Part numbers for the Suspension kit I ordered
BEL-5524 x 1 Sway Bar
BEL-5954 x 2 Leaf Springs
BEL-7503 x 2 Drop Shocks
GTR-4060955 (Serp Belt)
KNN-HP-2001 (Oil Filter)
RNB-576-329 (Fuel Tank)
RNB-578-008 (Fuel Tank Straps)
ok cheers fer that, can you let me know what it all cost ya (if your allowed lol)
Quoting: Shifty
My apologies Ian for going of topic again
Dont worry mate - your post is very informative and makes interesting reading (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: Shifty
You do realise you gone have to get her in mint condish for taking me out for a spin in at the next Fancot meet.
hehe i wouldn't say Mint condition mate, i'd say Runnig right and road legal hehehe (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
And dont think it be for a wile yet mate, need to sort the enginge out and then save up for registration, tax, mot etc etc (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Quoting: Finlay
BOV...... Well not much really as on the auto you dont stall the turbo on gear changes....But it make s the right sound (Mine cost £20 Delivered off ebay...lol)
Fin be carefull with a dump to atmosphere as i tried this on the saab and being an auto the boost pressure builds and the temps rise real quick. The dump to atmosphere are designed for manual cars autos normaly run a recirculating type. Chances are on a long journey the boost would build and blow out a pipe some place
Quoting: Shifty
Bummer, better make it quick i dont like to be kept waiting .
best be puttin your name down for some OT then son.
LOL ok sir whatever you say (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/lol.gif)
Hmm OT............wassat when its at home (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Quoting: ianjpage
Hmm OT............wassat when its at home
OT (over time) is when you stay late at work to read a magazine (or ho) then tell your boss in the morning you got loads of work done and that he will need to sign your OT form for 3 extra hours of "work".
Nice
Quoting: Finlay
The BOV Works Great. No probelms at all. Most Autos dont have them at all. As there's no real need.
Don't say i didnt warn you, all i know is it will put the motor under more load.
Quoting: Shifty
OT (over time) is when you stay late at work to read a magazine (or ho) then tell your boss in the morning you got loads of work done and that he will need to sign your OT form for 3 extra hours of "work".
Nice
Ahhh right i've heard about that fabled thing called Overtime......rarely have i had benefits of it tho (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Quoting: Finlay
Thanks for the warning.......But its not a problem...Ya Saab must of had boost creep to over boost.... Nothing to do with the BOV...
How does warm compressed air exiting the boost pipe before the Intercooler avia the blow off valve and being recirculated into the the intake before the turbo decrease the load on the engine?
BOV are operated by engine vacuum, on a manual car this happens when the throttle is lifted for the gear change, that split second the intake is no longer under boost so but vacume. With an auto box there is no lift of for the gear change so the boost pressure builds. The only way to get the vacuum is to throtle and let off something not normally done in an automatic.
With the boost not being allowed to release it builds and you can hear a noticable change in engine tone as the cylinders are now loaded.
The way SAAB turbo cars is one of the best ways and followed by many manufacturers. SAAB were the first to launch a production car with a turbo and have been doing it for many years so the system works well. So boost creep wasnt the fault
Quoting: 55starchief
Don't say i didnt warn you
I'd give up now. We all know what happened with the supercharger. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)
Quoting: Pod
I'd give up now. We all know what happened with the supercharger.
Oh yeah bolt it on worry about it later when it's broken (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/roll.gif)
Quoting: Finlay
So did ya get over boosting (Boost Creep) before you fitted a BOV because the overboosting can not be connected to the BOV at all
No the car had a recirculating valve as standard proper cars come with those mate audi,saab and porsche all use recirculating valves. With the recirculating valve in there was never any boost creep only when i fitted the dump to atmosphere did the car overboost and that was because the valve would only operate when i let off. If you have to let off your obviosley not trying hard enough
Part of the problem might have been that when the auto box changed gear with the throttle still wide open as the reves dropped the turbo was still momenteraly spinning at the previous gears exhaust pressure therefor overboosting. This could potentialy cause the turbo to go into surge then try and stall which would definatly damage it.
Not completley sure what the efect of a recirculating and dump to atmos.. BOV whould have on this system, maybe the recirculaitng BOV would stabilise the turbo in this short period of overlap somehow.
lots of cars as of at least 16 years ago have had recirculating BOV as it increases life expectancy of the turbo thus reduces warenty claims, this is certainly true of the 1990 MR2 turbo and other turbo cars of that era i have worked on. Maybe this was only the case with well designed turbo systems.
Quoting: Finlay
Shifty, Yep any engine tuning will reduce engine life. its always a trade off.
Didnt mean the engine in general just ment the turbo. The above statment is in general true but if you do a good job in the first place there is no real reason why the engine wont last for just as long as it would have before tuning.
Quoting: Finlay
Ian.... The Suspension kit does not come with new U bolts Ya will need them if you do that job... so Im on hold till I find some
DOH!!
Quoting: Pod
Quoting: 55starchief
Don't say i didnt warn you
I'd give up now. We all know what happened with the supercharger.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/owned.gif)
Quoting: Finlay
Will be interesting, Are you running in the SRS next year?
Would like to just depends on funds TBH
Quoting: Finlay
Its been a long time since I ran a 1/4mile so loking forward to having a blast. Not quite got the hang of getting it off the line yet. Think the key is to hold it on the brake for no more than a second or so...
There might be a 1/4 Mile shoot out local to me soon on an old airfield, with mainly the jap owning lot..... Hope it happens as it will be a laugh
yeah is good laugh so long as it dont break lol!!!
Quoting: Finlay
I know what ya mean..... Damm expencive to keep these rare trucks on the road...lol
LOL well if ya would do things like put new suspension bits, engines mods etc hehehe
Quoting: Finlay
What Chip is it running if any, Ive just ordered the Ultimate for stock Injectors 3 bar map from
www.sytychips.com
No idea mate - any easy way of checkin?
Quoting: Finlay
Im also looking into getting an External wastgate as the internal one is at its limit
Hmm daft question - where is it located as dunno if this one been changed ???
Quoting: ianjpage
Hmm daft question - where is it located as dunno if this one been changed ???
Waste gate is on the turbo its self, your looking for a actuator that operates a flap in the turbo t
Quoting: 55starchief
Quoting: ianjpage
Hmm daft question - where is it located as dunno if this one been changed ???
Waste gate is on the turbo its self, your looking for a actuator that operates a flap in the turbo t
OK cheers - hmm could be interesting to try and locate this then seeing as its well hidden away lol!
Quoting: Finlay
Im also looking into getting an External wastgate as the internal one is at its limit
what are you talking about, external wastegates are normaly only used when boost is higher that 30psi i would be surprised if your motor is pushing more than 15psi. What you need to do is change the actuator. Hell i have seen cars running 28psi of boost still with the internal wastegate and no ill effects. You would be better of spending the money on a hybrid turbo but thats a whole different kettle of fish. If you start messing with the boost your gonna have detonation and before you know it a blown motor
Quoting: Finlay
Ian Im sure you have all this sorted already on your truck...Its already had a different turbo fitted so the waste gate issue will not apply
OK fair enough - will have to see if i can see the wastgate just incase!!
Oh and what fuel you gunna run on normal 95 or super 97?
Quoting: Finlay
they have a little bit of a drinking habit
LOL wonder why!!
Quoting: 55starchief
Most turbo aplications will adjust the boost to the fuel rating as they run on the knock sensor, but hey what do i know
Yeah fair play but always worth checking what best octane to run on tho!!!
Quoting: Finlay
Ian deserves a bit of octain in his lif
lol thanks i thikn!!!
Quoting: Pod
Looks like another Typhoon will be in next year according to their forum...
That one had already run a 13.8 so that gives you two something to aim for.
Sure does Pod, I might even join myself
Quoting: Finlay
Sure does Pod, I might even join myself
Ditto - depends on £££ as always!
Quoting: Finlay
If I can get with in .75 of a Second of ya time mate I will be happy
hehe well i gorra set a time first though!!
Quoting: Titsy
You'd need to get it remapped... Have you worked out if it has the stock PCM yet?
Nope no idea, all i know is that when i floored it - it was fine up to about 85-90 then it started to bog down and the air-fuel meter read RICH therefore im asuming that its overfueling??
Quoting: Titsy
What engine speed? Do you get the same thing in every gear?
85-90 lol - dunno about RPM as wern't looking at that one!
Erm, pass cant say i noticed as i just got on tehe dual carriageway and floored it and i know it shifted down, then went so...pass....further investigation required me thinks!!
Quoting: Pod
What the hell were they thinking?
Exaclty what i said!
Quoting: Pod
If that's what they've done to the air filter, you might want to double check everything. Hopefully they stopped after that.
Funnily enough i am doing so - the coolant (engine and IC) is some wierd crappy colour so that will be changed, it will also have an oil change before too much longer....
Managed to re-attach the coil as well - as found it wasn't actually secured to anything, just mearly resting on a bracket - its now firmly bolted down!
Quoting: 55starchief
That might well be part of the reason its running rich at high speed. With the airfilter restricted it would be over fueling.
Yeah indeed wot i thought mate, just gorra hope it dont go the other way and be too lean at low speeds now!!!
Quoting: EDGE
throw that in the bin and put a stock filter in there... that looks w4nk....
yup, not a lot of difference between a new stock and a high flow filter
Quoting: Roadkill
That's proper cowboy engineering that !
Remind me not to buy a car from Japan . . . their cowboys seem more hardcore then American ones.
LOL yeah i must admit they do seem more hardcore on this - the others been ok though!!
Quoting: EDGE
throw that in the bin and put a stock filter in there... that looks w4nk....
thats a proper bodge i tell thee....
EDGE
Arr tis a proper bodge is that (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)
Dunno if stock filter will work cos the air intake stuff aint stock now - think the stock one is a FLAT filter, not a cone!!
Quoting: 55starchief
Quoting: EDGE
throw that in the bin and put a stock filter in there... that looks w4nk....
yup, not a lot of difference between a new stock and a high flow filter
Gunna try and track down some form of cyclinder / cone one that fits and use that
Quoting: ianjpage
Gunna try and track down some form of cyclinder / cone one that fits and use that
if it helps the SAAB 9000's used a cylinder filter like that
Quoting: 55starchief
if it helps the SAAB 9000's used a cylinder filter like that
Hmm yeah could do - will have a look see if they asme
Quoting: Roadkill
I'd guess you've checked it for part numbers . . . ?
Yup - its very helpful it says K & N in big letters and feck all else (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif)