MKB Forum

Having been thinking seriously about the long-term future of my P.C, I have been toying with the idea of Laptops.

I use my P.C for mainly internet / email . . . but also run AutoCAD.

I also (every now and then) use it for gaming.

Obviously I use it for iTunes and picture/music storage, too.

Long story short - I've had a butchers' at Dells 'site and it seems that you can get a substaintially more powerful laptop then the PC I have for around £500-600.

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

But I'm a F*cking n00b !

Someone enlighten me . . . . what would "do" me ?

EDIT - Budget is absolutely never gonna be more then £650 !

Just remember that laptops dont last as long as a desktop PC. If you pay the big money you get one that lasts like the mac sammy is using which is now 6 years old but was £1000. Its the old adage you get what you pay for mate

Lappys have come along way, they used to be quite far behind desktops and extremely expensive..

Now their tech is as good as desktops but as said above, they are harder to upgrade to make them more futurproof.  They are also normally more expensive, figure out of the air, normally around 1/4 more than the equivilent desktop.

I have a modified desktop and a lappy..  The lappy isnt as quick as my old computer even though the lappy isnt even a few months old, but thats because i didnt spend much on it as I only wanted it for the net when i am away and typing in bed like I am right now.....  Which is one of the perks of a lappy..  Even though its a low-ish spec, it will run all design programs (not at same time) and browse the net without too much hassle..  Going to stick another gb ram in at some point though which will help it out..

Its a tough call dude, depends how much you are away from home and ultimatly how much you want to spend..  A gaming laptop is always going to cost alot more than the same desktop..

Sorry if that has just taught you to suck eggs...

What're eggs ? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)

No, all fair comments.

One of the main reasons of me considering a Laptop is space.

Factor in the monitor and tower and desk and it's taken up a fair portion of the lounge.

I was toying with the idea of moving it to the second spare bedroom but it'd end up occupying nearly quarter of the room by the time you've allowed space around and for sitting . . .

I'm just not sure I want that much of my house dedicated to a PC.  I hate having a TV for the same reason (not that that's going, obviously).

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

My PC is due an upgrade (over due in fact) so if I'm gonna do it now (or soon) is the time.

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

PC is going to be cheaper to upgrade, that said there is only so much you can upgrade before you might as well just buy a completly new system..  I mean, if you want dual core / quad, it means changing the mobo, probably the psu, need a good graphics card etc etc..

If you just dont want the space used and youre not that much of a hardcore gamer, i would start looking more seriously at lappys (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)  Get one with a haaauugeee screen and you wont be missing that, also with wifi you can post from your caddy outside (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/beavisnbutthead.gif)

If it was me it would be a refurbed 20"imac with either XP r Vista on bootcamp. Edge is happily running a cad program on his imac wih vista and i know for a fact that the intel macs will happily run BF2 and flatout on a windows petiion. I even managed to get BF2 running under OSx albe it lacking some of the graphics which im sure i can figure out with some tweeking. You should easily find a refurbed 20"imac for the budget you have and there will just be a monitor as everything is built in

we have 4 lappys and two desktops and they all have different specs, but for most stuff they are great, love the lappy on wireless can use it anywhere in the house ,office,garden, hotels etc etc(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
wouldnt use em for games though......

we have 4 lappys and two desktops and they all have different specs, but for most stuff they are great, love the lappy on wireless can use it anywhere in the house ,office,garden, hotels etc etc(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
wouldnt use em for games though......

Right then - basically as peeps have said there are pros & cons for both:

Laptop....
Pro
Less Space
Portable

Cons
Harder to upgrade / repair
Higher initial cost for high spec

Desktop
Pro
Easier to upgrade / repair
Cheaper overall

Cons
More space needed

Obviously wirelesss, ethernet, DVD drives etc are available for both so that's not really an issue, its more the spec of the laptop will have to be as high as you can afford initially as about the only things you can upgrade are the RAM and the hard disc, whereas on a desktop if you Gfx card is old, you pop it out and replace it.

It really does honstly depend on what you want to do with it - obviously you can get th elaptops to play games (as Andrew & Phil had at the weekend) but they are not cheap at all....whereas the equivilant / higher spec desktop will be IMO a lot cheaper.

If you go for a nice high spec gaming laptop, you are talking something like the following spec:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7200 (2.00 GHz, 667 MHz FSB, 4 MB L2-cache)
17.0" UltraSharp™ Wide Screen WUXGA (1920x1200) TFT Display with TrueLife™
2048MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x1024]
160GB (5400RPM) SATA Hard Drive
256MB DDR3 nVidia® GeForce™ Go 7900 graphics card
Intel® Pro Wireless 3945 802.11a/b/g Mini-PCI Card

This is £979 quid!!!

OK i know you can get lower spec BUT think about this - will that spec work in 2 -> 3 years time when you get a new game.......

What i personally would do is sort the PC out so that it works and has  afairly good spec, and then if you really want to have the portability of a lappy is to save up for a nice cheap laptop (my sister bought one for 299-99 a few weeks ago) that will allow you to surf, email etc so then you got laptop for everything else and a pc in the corner / somewhere for when u want to game.......

I was looking at something like this :

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/iip_notebooks?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs

(The one on the right) ?

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

Dunno.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/150194/dell-xps-420-core-2-quad-3gb-500gb-/

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

With maybe an upgrade on the graphics card and battery ? (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

Hmm not bad but has only got 128mb Gfx memory, and seeing as that si something that either be non upgradeable or very hard to upgrade 256mb should really be the minimum...

Hmm looking at teh models there.....tehre is this one:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T5450 (1.66 GHz, 667 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2 cache)
2.0 mega pixel Camera & Tuxedo Black for CCFL Display
15.4" Widescreen™ WXGA (1280x800) TFT Display (220nits) with TrueLife™
3072MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [1x2048+1x1024]
250GB (5400RPM) SATA Hard Drive
NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 8600M GT with 256MB dedicated graphic memory
Fixed 8x DVD+/-RW Slim Slot Load drive, including SW
Intel® Pro Wireless 3945 802.11a/b/g Mini-Card - Europe - Core 2 Duo Processors

Obviously the downpoints to this compared to the other are that its only 1 1.66ghz cpu rather than a 2ghz and it has a 15.4 widescreen rather than 17" .....but should do most of what you want i would think - depends on how you could handle going down to a 15" widescreen - as yours currently runs at 1280X1024 res and this has the wierd res of 1280X800 res.....

Holy $hit - that's mega overkill ! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)

An extra £40 goes to a 256MB card.  (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif) hmm true, i think the thing to do is say ok i have x amount of money - what is the best laptop i can get for that amount then ramp up the Gfx, CPU and RAM to the max

I know nothing about this sort of stuff but wouldn't an upgrade of the PC with a high end TV card and wireless keyboard answer all your problems?

No portability I know, and you can't watch corrie at the same time as playing a game but lifes never simple is it?

I know you wont lbe intrested but this is now available on the apple store

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?nplm=FA877

Pretty much the spec you want and remember its all built into the screen and in a year or 2's time its still gonna be worth something as HRC has said in ther past

Thats a pretty good deal!!

I already have reasonable graphics and a wireless mouse and keyboard.

It's just that I'm due an upgrade (new mobo, ram ?, GFX card, cpu - I'm guessing £300+) and dislike the fact that I loose so much space to the PC.

At least a Laptop can be hidden in a drawer somewhere and should be good for a couple of years at least. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)



I quite like that.  The RAM's a little poor.

If I was definately going to stay with a desk-top type I'd certainly look into Macs.

I do like the fact that they're ALOT less obtrusive. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

he's hanging on the edge of decision...

all we need now is for smeone to reel him in...

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)

"The Force is strong in this one . . "

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)

I do like the look of Mac's, I'll admit.  Also the build quality (which I appreciate) is clearly superior.

But it'd be like getting a new mobile phone.  I don't do gadgets.  I hate having to learn anything new.  I purposely get the same type of mobile everytime just so I don't have to waste my precious time  learning a new one.

It's not that I'm lazy, it's just that I don't get excited over stuff like that.

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

Edge has 2 gig of ram he took out of his machine im sure he would be interested in passing on for beer tokens, alternatively he bought 4gig for £60

NOOOOO! dont do it - step away from the light... come back to the dark side, its more fun down here (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)

My company gives me a discount at Dell 3% upto £599  6% over £599 so if you want one let me know.

yeah on your hands and knees surrounded by PC parts as you struggle to make the thing work (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

That's £36 off of £600 (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

If your certain on going the PC route i would simply update your desktop. Cheap notebooks are gona give you 18months before something dies. Batteries are usualy the 1st to go followed by the HD. Remember that everything has been shrunk down to fit in a small case. I went he PC laptop route 3 times twice with dells and lastly with a custom built one all died and its not like you can even sell the parts on afterwards

Exactly what happened to mine and then you also have the Wi-Fi security issues (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)

Personally i've never had any problems with a PC once i've built it.  And i've never had a problem with my work dell laptops either (and i use that for 8-10hrs a day 5 days a week).

I guess i've either been lucky, or this whole 'PC's are unstable' thing is just nothing more than the fact everyone has a PC so the probability of hearing about a failure is stupidly high.

I guess, until there are as many macs out there as there are PC's we will never know which are truly the most reliable...


Just a thought...

I used to build my own right up until windows 95 came out, i hate the fact that the OS was supposed to do stuff but didnt. I still have endless problems on th PC platform like the datacard not being recognised as such and not working cause windows thinks it knows better and says its a storage device or the way it wont assign the correct drive letter to a USB stick the list goes on including the whole virtual memory thing where windows is supposed to manage it but doesnt

With the mac i dont have any of this crap and i prefer that. Im bored with trying to make things work when they should just work.

Right now my dad has the computer company trying to figure out why a laptop wont connect to the server on its wireless connection once again its going to be something stupid in the OS

I just knew this would turn into Mac vs PC war (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)

I dont see that, i have just tried to explain that a cheap laptop is not the way forward.

Makes no difference to me if he buys a mac or a PC i have no financial gain either way.

Lies..  55sc = Steve Jobs (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/smirk.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)

I want a powerbook...

Tis very true, i have only had very very few problems with my own custom built kit, and TBH most of it was due to age nothing more....

I think that if you use good quality components and check they all are compatable before buying you should have very very few, if any, problems.

Well yes and no - it really all comes down to what the individual wants - if all you want is a portable machine that surfs the net then a cheap laptop will do - why spend double, if not more on a mac when all u want to do is surf and email...

If you want graphics not games then its a very close call.......gaming - well PC is the best option there IMO....

trying to match what people want with what is best in terms of cost effectiveness, functionality and features is never an easy thing - thats why when ever i have supplied macines for people my first question is what do you want to do with it.....games, internet, email, photo manipulation etc....

The ideal solution for deano is a desktop PC but he doesnt want the space it uses.

Its going to have to be a compromise.

As stated earlier i would take the imac, i know it can run windows and cover the games area and CAD. For surfing and email you wont need to worry about spyware and virus attacks and above everything else it looks frikin sweet and wont take up the entire room. Plus it runs itunes and works with the ipod as it was designed together and is from the same manufacturer. The PC stil doesnt always like to play nicley with itunes

id get an imac dean, you can always stick windows xp on it and then you havent got to learn anything new.. i think you can get a 20" for around £700 but in a year it'll still be worth £550 at least.  A pc laptop wont be worth half of what you're speding to buy it..

If you buy an apple from the reurb store you get the same warrenty etc and theyre mostly actually new, damaged box is replaced and it instantly becomes refurb therefore 15% cheaper..

I could always buy it for you through my business and wash out the VAT portion of the cost; that means you could possibly go higher spec than you originally costed for?

I don't mean it as a present, before someone comes up with it (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif)

£650 wouldn't be a "cheap" laptop.



(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/plusone.gif)

But, still.  I dunno.  I've heard about laptops failing, fair enough, but £650 should get me a more then reasonable one.

The most it's going to be used is maybe an hour or two a day, nothing too stressful and Dell, for example, offer up to four years' cover on their gear.

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)



Very kind of you, mate.

Well worth considering - I believe Dell (business) still offer laptops running XP whereas Dell (home) only offer Vista <shudder>

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

Yeah laptops are more prone to failures than desktops but the rate is higher because laptops are subjected to more abuse than desktops i.e. dropping them, jostled around in car  boots etc etc....so if you are using at home and are careful it should last just as long as a Desktop would in perfeect conditions..



Take the cheapest cover they offer for shortest period as spares for dells are very readily available...and i've worked a heck of a lot on dell laptops at previous companys (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)



Yeah but i think that as an option you can choose XP rather than vista still??

As already stated, i made my decision 6 years ago and have never looked back. I have my new macbookpro and know its gonna last another 6 years minimum so im happy.

At the end of the day ts your hard earned cash so spend it where you like (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)

What about one of these new corona laptops ive been hearing so much about

(http://blog.hex.is/helga/corona_laptop.jpg)

A years free cover is included . . . .  (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)



No, at least, it doesn't offer it on that link I originally posted. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

I still hve my Toshiba T1000 purchased new by me back in 1987

(http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-009.jpg)

I believe its still at my parents place in the roof space, i did ditch the CGA monitor i also had for it

Thats how dell gets you, it hooks you with a price and then when you go to order offers a shit load of stuff and the price is never what is advertised.

Are you sure you don't have shares in mac?

Yeah indeed mate you like them and they do exactly what you want so (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rock.gif)



hahha (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/funny.gif)



That will do then (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)



Hmmm strange - did u go through to the customisation bit of it??


(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/funny.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/funny.gif)

Yep, both on the business and home side . . . . (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

hmm strange...

http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-2/

the shuttles are about the size of a shoebox!


http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Systems/Shuttle/



barebone systems comprise of case/psu/mobo/heatsink

you add the gfx, hd, and optical and ram

i sold my one about 4 years ago, and wish I hadn't

So how old were you in '87???

12

So your parents bought that T1000(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)

You aint that old yet dude!!!

Nope i purchased it with money left to me when my grandmother died

I think i bought it from gultronics

Macs can't play games Graeme proved that at the weekend wouldn't even run BF2 (a very old game) properly and took a bunch of messing around.
I know you wouldn't wanna be doing that.

If you don't wanna play games and you have the money then fine get a Mac I doubt it would take you long to learn how to use it (pratice on sammy's) on the other hand if your just using it for porn and office stuff then you can get a decent lappy for less than £400.

If you want to play games on a lappy you really need a gaming laptop like phil's or Andrews. They are expensive Andrews Dell XPS would be about £1000!

He recommends a Rock (like Phil has) http://www.rockdirect.com/
its what I would go for if I had the money.

Tis still a lot of dosh though just to save space especially as your not much of a gamer. your PC could be upgraded for less than £500, considerably less if you skimp on the graphics card.

afaik a normal lappy, even one with a highendish gfx "card" might not cut it for games they are not tuned for games and sometimes share system memory.

I found a reasonable XPS for around £650 (and that's with upgraded GFX and HD).

bonus. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)


Edit: Just followed your link from earlier, should do the job (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)

XPS  M1530
with the 3 gb ram,
NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 8600M GT with 256MB dedicated graphic memory
and 250gb HDD
£649

nice.

?

I thought the options were 2 or 4 gig. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)

Also I don't need a huge HDD as I have a massive back-up drive.

I'd prefer to spend the extra on the upgraded battery.

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T5450
2048MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM
160GB (7200RPM) SATA Hard Drive
NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 8600M GT with 256MB dedicated graphic memory
Primary 9-cell Lithium-Ion Battery (85 WHr)

That works out to be £659.

The other main options are :

CPU . . . I ain't spending more than another £100 so the only one that's cheaper is :

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7250 (2.00 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2-cache) an additional  £79.99

Is that CPU much better ?

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/featuresdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1530?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&~lt=popup

Third one in....



Why?




simple answer, yes it is.
but the extra gb of ram will probably be more noticeable.


Wouldn't worry about avoiding Vista either, neither Andrew or phil seemed to have had any problems with it.

I agree with everything chris has just said.  I noticed though that the Dell M1530 deal runs out today.... granted, there is a high chance there will be another offer tomorrow but you never know.

Quite a nice spec....

I would say YES get the best CPU now as RAM is more easily upgradeable than CPU in say 4-6 monts time.....

Very good point

Just ordered my new Lappy through work:

Vostro™ 1700 NB(N0217009)
Date & Time: Wednesday 27 February 2008 12:48 PM  
 
  SYSTEM COMPONENTS
  Vostro™ 1700 NB(N0217009)  Qty     1    
 Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.20 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 4 MB L2-cache), Genuine Windows® XP Professional - English Unit Price    £774.00    
£100 Money Off
Expires 27 February 2008        
    - £100.00  

Catalog Number:   202 N0217009  
Module   Description  Show Details
Base Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.20 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 4 MB L2-cache)
Microsoft Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Professional - English
Memory 3072MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM (1x1024 + 1x2048 MB)
Keyboard Internal Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)
Video Card 256MB nVidia® GeForce® 8600M GT
Hard Drive 250GB (5400RPM) SATA Hard Drive
Modem 56.6k V.92 Capable Internal Modem & Adapter - UK
Optical Devices  Fixed Internal 8X DVD+/-RW Drive including Software
Wireless Networking  Intel® Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-Card - Europe
Shipping Documents English Documentation with English/Irish Power Cord
Gedis Bundle Reference N0217009
Microsoft Application Software Microsoft® Office 2007 Basic - English
Standard Warranty 1Yr Basic Warranty - Next Business Day
Enhanced Service Packs  1Yr Basic Warranty - Next Business Day Included - No Upgrade Selected
CompleteCare  Declined CompleteCare
Protect your new PC  No Security/Anti-Virus Protection - English
Power Supply 90W AC Adapter
Bluetooth Dell™ Wireless 355 Bluetooth 2.0 Module (up to 3Mbps) with Enhanced Data Rate
Order Information Vostro Laptop Order - UK
Primary Battery Primary 6-cell Lithium-Ion Battery (56 WHr)
Carrying Cases No Carry Case
Dell System Media Kit Resource CD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
Colour Choice Matte Jet Black with 2.0 mega pixel camera
Promotions Hidden Option Class Free upgrade to Office Basic
Online Promotion Option for GEDIS Configs Dell Internet Order.
LCD 17.0" UltraSharp™ Wide Screen WUXGA (1920x1200) TFT Display with TrueLife™

TOTAL :£674.00  

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)

that looks like a very good deal !

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/plusone.gif)

Similar spec to the xps I selected but with the faster CPU, bigger screen, better NIC....and a camera (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)

The XPS has a 2 Megapixel camera.

didn't see that and interweb at works gone a bit squiffy (technical term) so couldn't compare properly (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)



Plus if its anything like Andrew's it will lots of pretty lights

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)

Gonna keep my eye on things.  I haven't imediately got the cash, anyway but will hold off an upgrade to my PC and re-assess in a couple of months.

I've moved my PC upstairs into the larger spare room now so I'm seeing how I get on with it up there . . . .

fair plays - hard drive sent off for replacement yesterday and they reckon a week max!!!



Cool - bet the lounge looks different now!!

Yup, gradually shuffling the old settees around to mimic the new settees' layout.

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)

(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rock.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/beavisnbutthead.gif)

I've been very happy with my dell xps laptop, and not just cos it was free, would definitely get another.  would also recommend vista over xp tbh, been using it for a long time now np and you may as well get the current OS.

my dell lappy has been great as well tbh (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)