Post by: Jamieg285 on February 16, 2014, 06:56:59 pm
For the MOT pass, I will need to replace the Outer Sill panel and the 'torque boxes' into which the front of the rear leaf springs attach.
I know from basic examination so far that I will also need to do some remedial work on the inner rear wheel arches and the passenger foot well.
I've got some pictures of the affected areas, which I've got to upload, and will link in here soon.
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 16, 2014, 08:58:49 pm
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/OuterSill1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/OuterSill2.jpg)
This shows the torque box and how it fits together:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/AssemblyManual.jpg)
And here's how mine looks, fore and aft of the passenger side spring:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/TorqueBox1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/TorqueBox2.jpg)
The sub-frame connectors could be the biggest problem, shown here at the front, middle and end
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/SubFrameFront.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/SubFrameMid.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/SubFrameRear.jpg)
Spent some time today pulling out the interior in preparation for the coming work. I'm well practiced at this now, so it didn't take long:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/InteriorStripped.jpg)
Overall, the floor pans look good, but the passenger footwell needs replacing. Lots of rust and some holes:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/PassengerFloorPan1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/PassengerFloorPan2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/PassengerFloorPanClose.jpg)
More woes at the back, where the sills join the rear arch. The water and cancer that has destroyed the sill has also attacked the arch:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/WheelArchInside1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/WheelArchInside2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day1/WheelArchOutside.jpg)
Plenty to think about there. First thing I need to do is work out a plan of attack, work out the order to do things.
I already have the sill panel, but it I will need at least the 2 torque boxes and 1 front floor pan, but as I work through things I may find I need more, and want to avoid having to order more than once. I've also got to work out the best source for the panels. Surprisingly, the best price for the sill was from one of the Bedford parts dealers. I'm hoping that will be the same this time.
More updates to follow, but don't expect as much movement as you get on Roadkill's projects. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Post by: FUBAR on February 16, 2014, 10:11:52 pm
Post by: Titsy on February 16, 2014, 10:58:02 pm
Post by: Rob on February 17, 2014, 12:05:45 pm
Got most of my panels from here.....:
http://www.amesperf.com/index.html
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 17, 2014, 12:22:45 pm
Quoting: Rob
Got most of my panels from here.....: Any tips on getting them over here as cheap as possible? I'm shopping around for quotes at the moment and the shipping costs are astronomical.
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 17, 2014, 03:49:17 pm
Of the panels I think I need, USAuto's cannot get any of them (not listed). I will try JWR to see if they have any more luck, but from experience they will ask me for the VIN number. I need to look that one up.
Found the perfect panel to do the front and rear bits inside, but it's the big complete floor panel. Good value at £140, but I draw the line at £400 postage.
I've found a place in the US that can do the 3 other main ones for about $320 shipped, but there'll be import charges on top of that (unless I get lucky)
Also found a guy that mis-ordered and has one of the torque boxes available just over half the price. Waiting to hear what he wants for postage.
Now the bad news - to do the rocker panel I need to remove the front fender. That means removing the hood too. I've only got one pair of hands, and no-where to store them. Looks like it's going to be fun. Not. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Post by: F Body on February 17, 2014, 05:18:28 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
Now the bad news - to do the rocker panel I need to remove the front fender. That means removing the hood too. I've only got one pair of hands, and no-where to store them. Looks like it's going to be fun. Not.I enjoyed taking your bonnet off last time, so I don't see that I can't muck in again (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 17, 2014, 07:00:10 pm
Post by: FUBAR on February 17, 2014, 09:15:21 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
no-where to store themIn the Living room... right in front of the telly (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)
Post by: Andy on February 18, 2014, 09:06:46 am
Post by: Rob on February 18, 2014, 11:03:54 am
Quoting: Jamieg285
Any tips on getting them over here as cheap as possible? I'm shopping around for quotes at the moment and the shipping costs are astronomical.For bigger items like my cowl panel I used this guy....
Ron Fenton
STS Imports
Unit 5, Chase Side Nurseries
School Lane, Great Leighs
Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 1NL
Tel: 01245 363800
Mob: 07850 268914
Fax: 01245 550479
email: ron@stsimports.co.uk
They bring a container in every four to six weeks so you have to plan quite a way in advance.
Saved a bit, but not huge amounts.
Post by: F Body on February 18, 2014, 11:32:17 am
Quoting: Andy
Where abouts are you Jamie?About two miles from me (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 18, 2014, 12:30:19 pm
Quoting: Andy
Where abouts are you Jamie?I'm currently lowering the tone of the neighbourhood in Luton (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 18, 2014, 12:31:08 pm
Quoting: Rob
For bigger items like my cowl panel I used this guy....Thanks, I've send an email. Hopefully they can do a lot better than the £500 to import a floor pan.
Post by: Rob on February 18, 2014, 05:19:11 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
Thanks, I've send an email. Hopefully they can do a lot better than the £500 to import a floor pan.His next shipping date is 20th March according to his post on POC forum,
He recommended NPD as they have a store close to where he ships from in Florida.
http://www.npdlink.com/store/catalog/1967_1981_Camaro-7-1.html
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 19, 2014, 12:17:09 pm
Quoting: Rob
Saved a bit, but not huge amounts.You're obviously not buying the right things!
Although I've yet to commit to a full floor pan (one side), it was $500 for shipping, not including import taxes.
STS - £90 + import
Post by: Rob on February 19, 2014, 12:49:40 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
You're obviously not buying the right things!I only used him for the bigger bits. Got my cowl panel through them for about the same price. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/wink.gif)
Post by: Andy on February 19, 2014, 02:03:02 pm
How does the import duty get divided out?
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 19, 2014, 02:09:23 pm
Post by: Andy on February 19, 2014, 02:12:14 pm
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 19, 2014, 02:32:15 pm
Post by: Andy on February 19, 2014, 06:23:51 pm
I'll stop derailing this thread now.
Best of luck with it buddy, if you find yourself doing a job that requires a bunch of help, give me a shout and I'll see if I can help out (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 20, 2014, 01:12:59 pm
Quoting: Andy
Jegs are over doing their FREE GROUND SHIPPINGGood shout, I hadn't considered them.
I couldn't find what I needed on there when searching by description (or at Summit)
I was looking around the specialist suppliers, who charge more, especially for the shipping. What that did do though was get me the suppliers part numbers. Do a direct search in Summit/JEGS with the part numbers and found that both of them do supply the bits I needed after all. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
Anyway, after tons of reading on my favourite 2nd gen website, and having another closer look at the current damage, I've worked out exactly what panels I need.
The rust in the passenger footwell extends up the toe boards, and there are only 3 panels which cover that piece:
1. Replacement Firewall (to match original panels) - Not going to do that
2. Half pan with toe board - strong possiblity
3. Full length pan with toe board - possible, but expensive. The middle section of the floor is actually good, so I don't actually need the full panel.
The deciding factor though, was the holes at the back corner, behind the rear seats. Turns out there is only 1 panel available that includes that bit - the full panel (#3 above), so that was decided. This also means that I have a full length outer seam to match up with the rockers (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
I'd read that the inner rocker is a fairly basic piece and could probably be repaired. However, looking through the holes in the worst section of the outer rocker, I'm not sure there's much of it there to repair. The sensible option had to be to get the replacement panel. As above, this means that the floor/inner/outer seams that join will be all new metal.
It goes without saying that the torque boxes will also need to be replaced, but there are only a couple of places selling these at the moment and I've not been able to identify the make or part numbers, so wasn't able to find them at Jegs or Summit. Plus, with one already sourced at half price, I only need one more and the shipping is pretty low for that.
So, the order has been placed with JEGS for the floor pan and inner rocker. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Where's the welding smiley?
Post by: Andy on February 20, 2014, 02:01:47 pm
I just did it for a diff I want. Hauser quoted me £900+ Vat fitted. All the parts, diff, ring and pinion and master seal and bearing set from Jegs comes in at $1001 > final landed prices after duties and VAT £745. Only problem I have is I'm clueless on how to set a diff up!
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 21, 2014, 08:51:45 am
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Tools/Sealey.jpg)
I also went out and bought a decent spot weld chisel:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Tools/Kennedy.jpg)
I had a short 45 mins to work on the car last night, so had a look at the front end in regard to removing the front wing. Removed the front headlight and the mounting bucket behind it (which I plan to clean up and repaint before re-assembly) to look for some of the 'hidden' bolts at the front of the wing.
I also removed the battery to get a good look at the main fender to fender extension joint, and spray some WD-40 at them. The inner fender is not in good condition, in fact I'm not even sure it's still in one piece. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
I forgot to take pictures, but I'll make a point of getting some before I go any further in this area.
Now, I've hardly got started on this yet, but already I've taken the decision to extend it into a bigger project. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
I won a partially restored front sub-frame on eBay for 99p a number of years ago and it's been stood in the garage ever since, waiting for the opportunity to be swapped in. It's not a small task to change - Remove everything from the front - bonnet, engine, wings, nose, suspension; cut out the SFCs and then re-assemble it all. As the car had been a daily driver, and required for ferrying kids about, the chance to do it never arrived.
Now though, a number of these jobs have to be done in order to do the work required for the MOT (remove bonnet, wing SFCs). Also until the car passes it's MOT, it's not like I'm taking it off the road to do it. It just makes sense to do it now. (There were other jobs that were considered, but had to be postponed due to lack of budget to get more panels).
While the front end is off, I am also going to tackle any repairs that need doing to the front core support. You can't but these new yet, and there's a restored one on eBay now, for a measly £400 (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif) It seems obvious that the best thing to do is repair my own whilst I have the chance to do it.
The biggest hurdle will be working out where to put all the gubbins while they are off. I'm hoping to be able to clear a bit of space in the garage, but it's already overflowing.
Post by: Roadkill on February 21, 2014, 12:33:00 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
I'm hoping to be able to clear a bit of space in the garage, but it's already overflowing.You need a shed ! - Or two !! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 21, 2014, 01:56:19 pm
Quoting: Roadkill
You need a shed ! - Or two !! Got a shed, but that's pretty full too. The last remaining space in there was taken up by the Corvette wheels I got at the end of last year.
It's not very weather proof either. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
I think my first project should be a real good clearout (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Post by: F Body on February 23, 2014, 10:22:43 am
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 23, 2014, 10:57:52 am
Headlight and mounting bucket removed
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day2/HeadlightBucketOut.jpg)
To reveal the hidden front bolts on the fender
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day2/HiddenBolts.jpg)
The inner fender doesn't look healthy
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day2/PassengerInnerFender.jpg)
And the core support will need some work
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day2/PassengerCoreSupport.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 23, 2014, 11:13:43 am
Despite that, I did spend half hour on the car, removing a few more bits and trying to work out how to remove the nose.
Drivers side inne fender is even worse. There may be an inch of joined metal, but I doubt it
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day3/DriversInnerFender.jpg)
The rest of the front end bits out
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day3/Nose.jpg)
A bit too rough trying to remove the wiring for the side light.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day3/BrokenTerminal.jpg)
That might need a new headlight. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Post by: art b on February 23, 2014, 01:26:23 pm
Post by: F Body on February 23, 2014, 02:49:15 pm
It's starting to look as if a complete strip down will be needed to sort the rot out (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Sorry (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/slap.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 24, 2014, 12:29:55 pm
Quoting: art b
the can o worms is open I don't think it's ever had a lid on it (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Most of the things I've shown I've know about for a number of years, just not had the opportunity to resolve them.
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 24, 2014, 12:35:12 pm
Quoting: F Body
Must be approaching the point where you have to decide if patch repairing is feasibleWell the passenger floor/sill area will be all new panels. Just got to work out how much, if any, of the original floor to retain, as from under the front seat back is all OK.
Core support is a different matter. As there isn't a new replacement available, and I don't have £400 to buy a ready restored one, I'll have to repair it in patches myself.
Inner fenders will be replaced when funds allow. Had I known how cheap I could get them in through STS I would have done them earlier. For now I think I will weld/bolt in some gussets to hold it together.
Quoting: F Body
It's starting to look as if a complete strip down will be needed to sort the rot outYeah, I know. I can't do the full strip down now, but I'm giving it a good go at the bits that don't need more money right now, and the rest will be done another time. The important goal right now is to get it MOT'd and back on the road.
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 26, 2014, 12:25:46 pm
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core1.JPG)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core2.JPG) (http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core3.JPG)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core4.JPG) (http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core5.JPG)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core6.JPG) (http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core7.JPG)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Research/Core8.JPG)
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 03, 2014, 02:15:23 pm
Spent most of the available time this week tidying the garage to make room for removed parts (i.e. bonnet, wings). I surprised myself with just how much space I was able to reclaim, just by re-ordering stuff, although all spaces are now stuffed to the gills. I really need to have a proper turn-out.
Anyway, following some research on body mounts, I figured it would be a good idea to give the replacement sub-frame a good check over before doing a loads of work removing the old one, just in case it was bent. Fortunately the clear floor space was just wide enough to lay it down for measuring.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day4/Frame.jpg)
It all measured up OK, but I did spot that the rear most holes where the body mounts go are a bit mis-shaped, so these will need to be repaired. A couple of patch plates and a suitably size hole saw have been sourced. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
I spent a few minutes adding an extra layer of Smoothrite to the upper side. In a couple of days when it's dry I'll flip it over and do the under side.
Whilst the paint was drying, I turned my attention to the car. Aim for the day was to remove most of the bits and bolts that would allow me to remove the nose in one piece, ready for when I have a helper to get it lifted off. A number of these were hidden from view, but most came out with ease. The trickier ones came when I'd worked out that the front spoiler spats were linked to the nose and fenders, so would need removing.
The passenger side was a complete pig. There are 4 bolts through the lower fender and bottom of the nose, and all 4 of them sheared (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif) There were 2 screws going up from underneath and one of these is seized solid with the head starting to round. Then there are 3 screws on the back edge, 2 of which were also seized, however the fender extension was so rotted that one has fallen out, and the other won't take much persuasion.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day4/RightFender.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day4/RightFender2.jpg)
What did surprise me was that I managed to free both of the fender extension support braces, which have a reputation for being paper thin and breaking as soon as you look at them.
Moving to the drivers side, I was expecting more of the same. This time though, all 4 bolts undid OK (well one just pulled through the urethane nose, but that was because it was the wrong bolt and no washer). One screw came out OK, the other was already hanging where the metal had rusted away from the main panel. I got the spat off OK, but the fender doesn't look too good.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day4/LeftFender.jpg) (http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day4/LeftFender2.jpg)
The fender extensions look to be toast, (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif) but I'll give them a proper assessment later when they are off the car. The pictures aren't really showing how bad they are.
Worst case is that they will need replacing, however I have got a pair of NOS that have been sitting in the loft for a number of years.(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
As usual, not enough time to make any decent steps, but at least it's moving.
Parts update, I've ordered a set of solid body mounts and rear spring mounting hardware. The torque box plates have also been ordered. Thinking ahead, I've also bought a new engine oil pan from RockAuto, to be put on whilst the engine is out. Hopefully it will cure some, if not all of the oil leaks. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/crossed.gif)
Post by: Andy on March 04, 2014, 03:18:27 pm
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 12, 2014, 01:07:11 pm
I did get a couple of hours though. I've removed the hood latch mechanism to try and make lifting the nose off a bit easier. Had another go at trying to remove the battery tray, but still no luck. Have taken to spraying rust penetration oil on it regularly in the hope that it will help.
Quoting: Jamieg285
It all measured up OK, but I did spot that the rear most holes where the body mounts go are a bit mis-shaped, so these will need to be repaired. A couple of patch plates and a suitably size hole saw have been sourced. I forgot to take a picture of the original hole in-situ, so here's the remains after I cut it out:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day5/FrameOldHole.jpg)
As you can see it's not particularly round. It looks like the previous owner tried to repair it by welding directly onto the edge of the hole, easier to see on the underside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day5/FrameOldUnderside.jpg)
Anyway, I cut the right sized hole in the new plate, lined it up over the old one and clamped, before cutting through both old and new together. I was then able to butt weld the patch in and grind it down.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day5/RepairTopside.jpg)
After grinding I can see that there's a few spots that need going over again. View from underneath shows that the penetration wasn't ideal all the way round, so I'll maybe attack it from underneath, or just re-cut and re-do the thin bits.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day5/RepairUnderside.jpg)
I'm hoping that there will be enough clearance for the mount bushing on that lower right corner. I think that is part of the original frame, so it should be OK. Need to wait until the shipment comes in in April so I can trial fit it. That said, I hope to have the old frame off the car by then, so would be able to test fit the old bush.
I'm getting close to being ready to lift the nose off, and I'm hoping that I can manage it on my own. I suspect that I'll get it off OK, but may need help carrying it down the alley way without knocking it against the wall.
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 17, 2014, 01:57:13 pm
I started the day in the interior, stripping out the drivers side so that I could check the inner sill and inner quarter. I had thought this side was the better of the two, as the outer rocker seems solid, but I wasn't expecting what I found. The the carpet up and the rear seats out I started tapping with a screwdriver and lots started to fall out:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/RustPile1.jpg)
There was quite a bit of damage to the inner wheelhouse, inner sill and floor:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriverRearQtr1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriverRearQtr3.jpg)
It's not quite as bad as it looks in this picture - the sharp pointy bit on the left is sunlight/shadow.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriverRearQtr2.jpg)
By the time I'd finished digging, there was a very large pile of rust to get rid of:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/RustPile2.jpg)
I also found a bit of damage to the top of the outer sill, but I am hoping that this can be patched:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriverSill.jpg)
After finding this, I took a closer look at the passenger side and dug a bit more rust out, finding it too was worse than I thought. I've decided to purchase the inner wheel house sections that will patch the vertical panels. The passenger side floor will be covered by the replacement pan I've ordered, but the affected area of the Drivers side isn't big enough (and covers 2 seperate panels) to warrant buying full panels, so I will fabricate some patches to fit.
After those depressing findings, I moved back to the outside and front of the car. Having done most of the prep work during the week, it was just for large nuts and the nose cone/bumber was removed:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/NoseOff.jpg)
The weight wasn't as big a problem as I had expected, but the sheer size of it was. It was too big to fit where I was expecting to put it, so for now it is going to live under the front of the car.
That revealed the core support and showed that there is some repairs needed to both lower corners, but it didn't look too bad overall:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/LeftCore.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/RightCore.jpg)
With that removed I had better access to get to the battery tray and fender extension. I'd been using plenty of rust pentrant, but still ran into a number of seized bolts and snapped cage nuts. With a bit of a fight, I did eventually manage to remove the fender extension:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/FenderExtRemoved1.jpg)
I changed tack on the battery tray and used some diferent tools, getting it out relatively easily. Give the amount of damage around it, it's in pretty good condition and should clean up nicely:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/BatteryTray.jpg)
With the tray out of the way, I could clearly see the extent of the damage on the inner fender, and it was worse than expected. There is just an inch of metal holding the front piece to the main arch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriversInnerFender1.jpg)
I figured I may as well take it out now. Had problems with a couple of the bolts into the fender, meaning the fender will need some attention later, but it came out with ease - actually it fell out of it's own accord once the last bolt was free:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriversInnerFender2.jpg)
I'm sure it's not supposed to bend like that:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day6/DriversInnerFender3.jpg)
With this being the 'good' side, and knowing the other side is completely separated, I decided that I would have to order the new replacements now. These bolt to the core support, in an area where the metal has rusted/gone, and I need a solid inner fender to match the repairs up to.
Thankfully I've got 3 days left before the shipment leaves the US, and NPD Florida had the 4 panels I want in stock. They should be there in plenty of time. I'm now wondering if I will be able to pick up all of these new panels in one trip when it arrives in the UK!!
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 25, 2014, 08:24:57 am
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/HiddenNut.jpg)
With that done, I moved back to the frame repairs. I flipped it over and welded the back side of the plate. Not sure why, but it welded much better this time (gas pressure?) A bit of work cutting and grinding with a dremel in the area where the bushing will go and it was all done.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FrameHoleBack1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FrameHoleBack2.jpg)
Back on the topside I welding in a couple of pin holes that remained and ground back to flat.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FrameHoleTop.jpg)
A quick splash of etch primer
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FramePrimer.jpg)
and ready for another coat of Hammerite.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FramePainted.jpg)
It wasn't until it had dried the next day and I was standing it up again that I realised that I'd missed the end of the opposite arm, and this will need touching up at a later date. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
I only had a short time on the Sunday, so I made a start on getting the exhaust out. I must have made a good job installing it, as it wasn't easy to seperate some of the joints. End result was I only managed to get the front X-pipe section and mufflers out. The rear pipes will have to wait for another day, perhaps after I've dropped the rear end/springs will make it easier.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/XPipeOut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/XPipeOut2.jpg)
Due to network outage at work yesterday, I was able to work from home, with gave me some bonus time at my lunch break and immediately after work time finished. I turned my attention to the rear of the car, preparing to remove the springs. In order to get to the bolts for the rear shackles, thew first thing out was the fuel tank, using the tried and tested method of balancing it on a jack, only for it to fall off as the jack is lowered (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FuelTankOut.jpg)
It looks past it's best, but a new one is outside the already overspent budget. It's not leaking, so I'll carefully clean it and give it a fresh coat of paint.
Final job for the day was to remove the fuel line. I wasn't expecting any problems with this, as it was replaced only a couple of years ago. The bolts did come out with relative ease, but all bar one of the P-clips split. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif) I'll be looking for some better quality ones when it comes to refitting.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day7/FuelLineClip.jpg)
Post by: Rob on March 25, 2014, 12:23:39 pm
(http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/FN02639-30.jpg)
http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/91359-rubber-clamp-assortment-d01882-duratool.html
Post by: Roadkill on March 25, 2014, 01:03:02 pm
Thinking of using a piece of silicone hose sliced into a "C" around the metal pipes next time, then the clip (without the rubber obviously).
Post by: art b on March 26, 2014, 11:17:27 am
it looks like you have got a hold on it...good luck with it (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 02, 2014, 01:11:54 pm
Most of the weekend was taken up with family stuff so I took Monday afternoon off to make up some time. I ended up cutting the grass, fitting fence panels and going out to buy a new lawn mower. I only got 1 hour on what I had planned to do, and I didn't even touch the car in that time.
What I did do was extract my engine crane from it's storage at the back of the garage, re-build it and apply some grease to the wheels and bearings.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day8/Crane.jpg)
I managed to sneak in an extra hour on Weds evening after work, but didn't get too far there either. I'd moved on to removing the front suspension, stating with the passenger tie rod. That one nut took me almost half an hour and half my tool box to get out. Note to self, make sure you undo the nut fully before breaking the taper seal.
I had to resort to a nut splitter in the end:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day8/TieRodNut.jpg)
After that I only had time to remove the nut on the sway bar link, even that put up a fight and I didn't get as far as freeing and removing the bolt.
Hopefully I will get on better next time.
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 06, 2014, 08:10:24 am
Once again, I didn't get as much done as I had hoped, largely due to stubborn rusty split pins. Anyway, at the point of running out of time I'd managed to separate the ball joints from the spindle, remove the shock and dropped the lower a-arm from the frame. It was starting to get dark, so I had to leave it all swinging from the top am, waiting for the next stint.
My shoulders are aching this morning, due to the heavy cranking of the ratchet, compressing and then ucompressing the spring. I'd forgotten just how strong they are and I'm not relishing the idea odd having to do the other side any time soon.
Rain and family visits mean I probably won't get out there today, so I will get a bit of recovery time.
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 09, 2014, 08:46:17 pm
First job was to remove the passenger suspension which had been left hanging from last time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/PassengerSuspLoose.jpg)
That didn't take too long (Upper control arms will wait until the headers are out).
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/PassengerSuspOut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/PassengerSuspOut2.jpg)
I don't remember fitting 2-part springs!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/PassengerSpring.jpg)
I then moved over to the drivers side, first removing what was left of the inner fender to give better access to the top of the shock. I ran into a problem with one of bolts, where the fender metal ripped and started to bend:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/PassengerInnerFenderBolt.jpg)
This gave me a perfect opportunity to try out my latest purchase:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/Dremel.jpg)
Three quick slices later and the bolt was freed:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/InnerFenderCut.jpg)
With the inner fender out, I was able to make quick work of the rest. Rather than going the manual route, I tried using an impact wrench on the spring compressor - and wished I'd done that the other side. It was a breeze, nice smooth and slow and under control. 2-part spring on this side too!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/DriverSpring.jpg)
At least they have broken evenly and can be re-used, although I am planning on fitting some QA1 coil-over shocks instead. I'll keep these as spares:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/PairSprings.jpg)
All was going well until the last bolt, rear most one on the lower control arm. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it out. I've tried hammering as hard as I can and trying to unscrew the bolt, but it's not budging.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/LCABolt1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day9/LCABolt2.jpg)
I've found a thread with the exact same symptoms. It looks like the bolt has fused with the sleeve inside the bushing. It looks like the only solution will be to cut the bushing and bolt out. My last idea will be to try and get in there with a ball joint press, but I'm open to any other suggestions.
Post by: Roadkill on April 10, 2014, 11:41:13 am
I'm guessing there should be enough gap, then just cut the head and tail off the bolt, drop the arm out and press the whole bush out, bolt shaft n' all.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 22, 2014, 12:03:31 pm
First job of the day was to try getting that stuck LCA bolt out. Turns out my ball joint press is about 1 inch too long. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/smirk.gif) I managed to get it almost in place and gave it a go, but only succeeded in bending the mounting tab. Rather than trying to cut it out, I think I will leave it on there and sell it with the frame when the time comes. I have a full spare set of arms that I can put on it too. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
After giving up on that, next was removing the hood. Somewhat foolishly I thought it would be fairly easy to do on my own with the assistance of the engine crane. Quite how I managed it without damaging anything (including myself) I don't know, but I do know I won't be attempting it again. I was planning to proudly write down the technique for others to use, but I think it's better to say get someone to help - it's easier and safer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/HoodOff.jpg)
With that out of the way, I had clear access to pull the fenders. Nothing too tricky, just taking a few pics of the alignment shims for reference when it comes to refitting.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/DFenderAlignment2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/FendersOff.jpg)
Both fenders are in better condition than I expected, but both could do with some TLC. Both have had some strange looking patches in the past, and I'm not particularly happy with either of them, but I may or may not be able to do anything about them now and they may have to wait for a different project.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/DriversFender1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/DriversFender2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/PassengerFender.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/PassengerFender2.jpg)
There was also some damage to the top of the drivers side, which I will try and sort out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/DriversFender3.jpg)
With the front end almost fully stripped, I moved underneath the car an set about separating the SFCs from the sub-frame. Being carefull with the angle grinder and dremel cut-off tool to minimise the damage to both parts, I managed to cut 3 of the 4 sides out, before running out of time. It took less than 30 mins per side, so it won't take long for the last remaining bit next time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/FrameSFC1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/FrameSFC2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/FrameSFC3.jpg)
When packing away, I found something bad, which may come to haunt me later on in the rebuild. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif) Where I had laid the nose cone facing upwards, I hadn't realised there was nothing supporting the weight of the bumper structure and it has pulled away from the urethane cover, ripping several of the mounting holes. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif) I don't know yet how much of a problem this will be, and suspect that I will have to make some custom brackets to hold it all back together again.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day10/NoseSeparate.jpg)
On the plus side, with the weight gone from the nose, it's far easier to handle and I've been able to move it to the back garden and out of the way.
Post by: Roadkill on April 22, 2014, 12:35:17 pm
Post by: FUBAR on April 22, 2014, 05:59:03 pm
All I can say its a good job you are happy welding, when I had even just some of this stuff fixed on my old 3rd gen it cost me a small fortune because I had to pay someone to do it for me (and they bodged 1/2 of it (no not Rocky FYI, the guy at the Milton Keynes Garage I took it too))
I may not comment much but i'm watching with intent cos there's stuff to be learnt all round (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
I always think cars like ours look really weird with the front all 'naked' like it is now. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/chiny.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 23, 2014, 07:01:30 am
Put in another 3/4 hour yesterday evening, pulled the headers out and found that you can't remove the intermediate steering shaft without removing either the steering box or column. Guess what's now high on the agenda...
I've got the afternoon off today, so will get a few more hours on it.
Post by: Rob on April 23, 2014, 08:28:19 am
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 24, 2014, 08:22:54 am
I started by finishing the previous job, cutting out the last bit of weld joining the sub-frame to the SFC. This one did take a bit longer than the others, due to the close proximity to the parking brake cable, which I eventually had to disconnect to make room for the Dremel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/FrameSFC4.jpg)
Then I turned my attention back to the steering shaft. The impact drill made short work of the steering box, but only after I had remembered to unhook the power steering hard lines and loosen the power steering pump to give some movement. With the box 'floating' it was a simple job to knock the shaft out, first from the firewall end, then prise the rag joint end off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/IntShaft.jpg)
With this out, I finally confirmed my suspicions that it had been put on wrong. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif) There are spline witness marks in the grease on the flat of the rag joint, showing that it had been installed 90 degrees out, which is why the steering wasn't centred properly. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/RagJoint.jpg)
It's worth pointing out at this time, I have all the parts ready to refurb the intermediate shaft - new rag joint and top boot. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)
I'm still undecided on whether I am going to try and transplant the front brake system intact, or if I need to separate it. Going with the former for now, I removed the brackets that hold the brake line to the frame:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/DriverBrakeBracket.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/PassengerBrakeBracket.jpg)
One thing that is clearer, is that the front-rear brake line (and the redundant fuel vapour line) will need to come out for me to replace the torque box that side. I'm not ready to remove it yet, as I need the SFCs out first, so I simply split the connection at the rear and caught the drips as the MC emptied. (See nice metal Coors bucket in pic further down (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif))
With the frame no longer welded to anything, I'm getting closer to being able to drop it from the body. In preparation for this, I started checking for anything left that connects from the body to the frame or engine. You often read about other peoples birds nest of wiring and I found lots of that - but this time it's all mine (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif). I might see if I can tidy things up a bit more when I put things back together. I'm still considering removing all wiring and fitting the Painless loom that's been hiding in the garage for almost 8 years.
I separated out a number of wires that feed into the body, and removed my junction box and additional fuses:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/MyWires.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/MyWires2.jpg)
The last bit for now (I have left the distributor wires, as I will remove that later) was the speedo cables, both the original shaft drive and my own ones used on the electronic sender.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/SpeedoCables.jpg)
Last job for the day was to remove the rear shocks, getting ready to drop the rear end. Drivers side came out relatively easily. The lower nuts needed lots of persuassion, but came out OK and access to one of the top bolts was impeded as the shock has moved on it's mounting bar. I was able to pry it across a bit with a screwdriver and use a 1/4 drive socket to squeeze into the gap.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day11/DriverRearShock.jpg)
The passenger side was a different story. Bottom nuts came off easier, but the troubles came at the top. Rather than the expected bolts going up into the body, I find two M6 bolts coming out, with nuts holding the shock up. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/dontknow.gif) One side came out OK, but the other got about 2/3rds down and the bolts starts spinning. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/sad.gif) Oddly, despite this I was able to tighten it back up. I ran out of time to deal with it, so will have to take another look next time. Hopefully I will be able to go back to the original bolts on re-assembly.
Some good news, I spent a bit of time having a root around in the garage, trying to find some of my stock and confirm what I had. I confirmed I had some new sway-bar links, so don't need to go to the hassle of removing the seized ones. I also found a shackle kit, and have the choice of rubber or poly, so will be asking questions on that soon. Unfortunately, I found a set of spring pocket bolts - I didn't need to buy another set of these after all. The shackle kit also contained all of the necessary hardware to remount the rear end to the springs, so I'll probably separate them and clean them up and re-assemble. Surprise find was a set of door hinge pins and bushes, so I might as well sort out the passenger door.
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 27, 2014, 08:17:06 pm
Saturdays target was to get the rear springs out and remove the rear end. I'd already pulled the fuel tank out and removed the inner nut from each shackle. The tail pipes were previously in the way of the outer nuts, so the first job was getting these out. To do this I need to move the axle stands from under the rear end to support the body, and let the rear end droop, and then remove the rearmost exhaust hangers from the side of the rear frame. That's when I spotted this:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverRearFrame1.jpg)
I checked the other side, which appears to look OK, so I would need to take a closer look later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/PassRearFrame1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/ExhaustOut.jpg)
With the tail pipes out, I was able to access the outer nut, although it still wasn't easy to get to - I couldn't get a ratchet in there. One side came off OK, the other side was stiff, up to the point where the bolt sheared!
Before going any further, I realised I needed to detach the springs from the rear end. Knowing that there was likely to be problems with the bolts, I brought out the impact wrench and disc cutter. The wrench worked well with the first two bolts, but that turned out to be a false impression of how well it would work, as the next two wouldn't move at all, and the other four all rounded off. To get the others out I had to cut through both sides of the U-bolts and cut the heads off the T-bolts, none of which caused too much trouble. With the bolts off, I was pleased to see the springs drop down from the rear end, although on the drivers side, the lower leaf also fell off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverSpring4.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverSpring1.jpg)
Looking closer I can see there is a nut left in the spring mount, that should hold the lower springs onto the pack. Hopefully this will be able to go back, although I may try and find out if I can not refit the lower one to soften the rear end a bit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverShockMount.jpg)
The passenger side came out intact, but as I had suspected a number of years ago, the rear had been misaligned. The mark in the spring pad shows that the bolt was nowhere near centered:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/PassengerShockMount.jpg)
Back to the shackles, the passenger side separated relatively easily. I was driving out the top bolt with a punch and the outer plate was moving out with the bolt. It was the lower one that had sheared, so after a small amount of movement the inner plate was free and I was I able to remove the spring. I had to pull the top bolt back into the frame so I could get a clamp around the outer plate, so that I could split it from the bolt. Once out, I was able to use a screw driver and hammer to prise/punch out the bushes, which turned out to be poly ones.
The drivers side wasn't quite as easy. I wasn't able to get either of the bolts or plates to move. Instead I used the disc cutter to split the inner plate in two, which allowed me to remove the lower bolt and the spring, then going on to drive the top bolt out, although there was quite a lot of debris that was falling:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverSpring2.jpg)
With the rears of the springs out, I moved the front spring pockets, with some trepidation as I have read plenty of stories of the clips nuts braking and the bolts needing to be cut out. Fortunately, there were few problems. The passenger side came straight out with no bother, and I was able to inspect the spring.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/PassengerSpring1.jpg)
The spring pocket looks a bit dodgy, thankfully I have some spares ready
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/PassengerSpringEye.jpg)
The drivers was, again, a differnt story. The first bolt came out OK, but the second one split. Fortunately, it was the one best placed to get a clamp on - there is a benefit to rusted out floors after all - you can see what you are doing:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverSpringEye.jpg)
The final bolt though, is not coming out yet. The SFC has been welded in such a way that it is blocking me getting a socket on it. Box wrench is not working it, and although I have a thinner wall socket it the bolt, it's a 12-point and is threatening to strip the head. I think it can wait till the SFC is out, so I have left it for now.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverSpringEye2.jpg)
So, apart from that one bolt stopping me getting the spring out, the target for the day had been reached and I was relatively happy.
Now the bad news. I rechecked the rear frame after removing the bushes, and found significant rust hole. It's not overly large, and the surrounding metal appears all OK, but the location of it makes it look very tricky to repair. I will be taking a further look later and doing some more research to see what options I have.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day12/DriverRearFrame2.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 27, 2014, 08:47:17 pm
I started underneath the car, removing the prop shaft:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/PropShaft.jpg)
With that out of the way, I fitted the newly acquired trans plug, to keep the fluid from spilling out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/TransPlug.jpg)
I also disconnected the bracket for the trans shifter cable, so that it could articulate freely. The cable was long enough that it didn't need to be removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/TransShifterCable.jpg)
Next was going to be the fuel line, but a lack of forward thinking when I fitted it meant it has to stay on the car.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/FuelLineRear.jpg)
The final job here now was to lift the car up and move the jack stands from the frame to the body, using a block of wood each side to spread the load. The jack stands where carefully placed as far apart as possible to leave space for the frame to be lowered between them.
I thought it would be OK and I would be able to feed it back from the front, as the connection to the pump is a hose barb, however there is a joint I'd forgotten about which meant that wouldn't work either. In the end I just had to hope there would be enough slack in it, which fortunately there was.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/FuelLineFront.jpg)
That was the underside sorted, so it was back to the top side, in what's left of the engine bay. A double check on the wiring, but I did spot the throttle cable needed to be removed too(although later I had to remove the carb as well anyway)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/ThrottleCable.jpg)
I split the master cylinder from the booster, so that it would drop down with the frame. The booster can be taken off later, if necessary.
I checked underneath for clearance, to make sure neither the engine or trans would hit the floor when the frame was lowered, which they wouldn't. I did spot the remaining suspension parts were drooping, so tied them up out of the way.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/DriverSusp.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/PassengerSusp.jpg)
I got the hoist and and roughly in place, opting to use a load leveller, in case the engine/trans/frame combination was going to cause any problems. Using this meant I needed to remove the carb and the distributor to make room for it and the chains.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/DizzyRef2.jpg)
Everything was now in place and the hoist was setup to take the slack. Seeing just how much the nose was lifting with no movement in the body, showed me just how much flex there is in the front, and makes me certain that I will fit G-braces when I get to the rebuild.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/CraneReady.jpg)
I was expecting a fight from the body mount bolts, but they turned out to be some of the easiest bolts I've used on the car. Although more than 10 years since they were fitted, they were done so with plenty of copper grease and were in great condition. As the last ones were removed, the frame started to lower, so I put a trolley jack under the rear section, just in case it dropped suddenly. Thankfully it didn't, but I then had a different problem. The front was dropping nicely, I could see the rear was moving, bit it wasn't dropping out of the SFCs. It turns our the back end of the frame is angled upwards, so wasn't able to drop straight down. I was now in a position of the weight being held by the hoist, but not able to move it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/Hanging1.jpg)
I moved to the front and gave the hoist a few big tugs, hoping to pull the frame slightly forwards and allow the rear to break free. Thankfully it did, and it was also pretty well balanced. The tugs had moved the whole thing further fowards than I had hoped, so had to try and push it back again, but not so far that it hit the body. I ended up using the load leveller to shift it backwards, which worked quite well.
With it lined up roughly where I wanted it, I just had to carefully lower it down, only to find that it would land on the long legs of the hoist. Out with a borrowed set of axle stands, placed under the front of the frame, which gave just enough clearance to drop it down and have clearance to remove the hoist.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/Down1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/Down2.jpg)
Everything was then packed up and away, and I was only 5 mins late for the evening meal! I even managed to keep the car looking reasonably presentable for the neighbours:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day13/Tidy.jpg)
All in all a good weekend. It won't be long before I can actually get on and do the jobs that I have been preparing for.
Post by: Roadkill on April 28, 2014, 10:34:28 am
Quoting: Jamieg285
newly acquired trans plug, to keep the fluid from spilling out.Simple and effective. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Quoting: Jamieg285
I even managed to keep the car looking reasonably presentable for the neighboursBig girl ! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Good progress !
I must admit I do miss having a nice smooth driveway to work on. I'm getting too old for gravel. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/old.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 28, 2014, 10:59:42 am
Quoting: Roadkill
Simple and effective. Oi, who you calling simple (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Quoting: Roadkill
Big girl ! We had a few years of problems with them after the last one. They've calmed down a bit in the last couple of years and I'm trying not to provoke them.
Quoting: Roadkill
I must admit I do miss having a nice smooth driveway to work on. I'm getting too old for gravel. Block paving isn't exactly smooth, but at least it's level and solid. There is a 1/2 metre wide strip of gravel down the drivers side of the drive, which is a pain. I'm glad I don't have to work on a full driveway of it.
Post by: Rob on April 28, 2014, 11:12:22 am
Quoting: Jamieg285
Now the bad news. I rechecked the rear frame after removing the bushes, and found significant rust holeLooks very familiar. I'm still tackling the rear frame rails on mine(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 29, 2014, 01:14:53 pm
First off I started pulling out the interior. I'd already got most of the seats and side panels out earlier when I was checking out the condition of the floor. I was able to take down all of the panels around the roof and sun-visors. The lower dash on the drivers side came out, and the steering column was dropped to make removal of the gauge bezels easier.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/ColumnDown.jpg)
Many years ago I fitted a set of Autometer gauges directly to a slightly modified original bezel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/GaugesOut.jpg)
The plastic was quite thin and brittle when I fitted it originally, and the attempts to hold it together weren't working out so well and I am in danger of the panel breaking in two.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/OldRepair.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/OldRepair2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/Crack.jpg)
I took the decision to stop on the car for a while, and take on a sub-project of improving the gauge mounting.
I wanted to retain the look of stock bezel, but the weight of the gauges was proving too much for the ageing plastic. Taking inspiration from the custom aluminium gauge mounts I've seen, I figured the best way to strengthen it would be to put a solid panel across the whole back face where the gauges go.
I measured the bezel and headed to the local B&Q to look for a suitable piece of metal. I'd thought of going for aluminium to keep the weight down, but the bits they had were too thin and wouldn't add much structural benefit. The steel was thicker, but much heavier. Ideally I wanted either of the metals in the thickness that the other one came in, but no luck there. The compromise was some perforated steel. Still pretty stiff, but with lots of voids to lower the weight. It should also provide lots of edges for the glue to take hold, although the gauge mounts will clamp the metal to the bezel anyway. A bit of glue should help to stop flexing.
First job was to remove all of the gauges and wires and set them aside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/GaugesSeparate.jpg)
Initially I thought I'd be able to lay the bezel on top of the metal and trace around the holes, however the back of the bezel is far from flat and that wouldn't work. Instead I cut out a template from an old cereal box, laid that on the back of the bezel and marked the holes on the carboard.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/Cardboard.jpg)
Then simply transfer the carboard to the metal and mark again.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day14/Metal.jpg)
Didn't have time to go any further, but I'll be digging out the Dremel cutter again as soon as time allows.
Post by: Roadkill on May 01, 2014, 07:51:11 am
Unless you want that patterning ?
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 01, 2014, 08:15:40 am
To be honest, it will probably look crap by the time I've finished, but that will also be in the knowledge that it won't be seen. Would be a different story if I was replacing the whole bezel.
Post by: Roadkill on May 01, 2014, 08:58:40 am
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 02, 2014, 07:43:38 am
The container was due into port yesterday and my shipment may be ready for collection tomorrow. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
I've also come up trumps on a solution to the rear frame rail problem. A new rail was looking at over £300 per side(after shipping) and a manual patch repair was never the best option. Well, thanks to Rob ((http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/cool.gif)) I've located a used one in excellent condition - in the UK. Even better, the guy needs to collect a wing from Dunstable, so has agreed that if I act as courier I can get the frame rail at a better price - result. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Rob on May 03, 2014, 07:27:53 am
Quoting: Jamieg285
Well, thanks to Rob Finger on the pulse.....(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 06, 2014, 01:27:12 pm
There seems to be an unwritten rule that all boxes need to be at least twice the size of the things in them, and there was no way that I was going to get all the boxes in (1 full length floor pan, 1 inner rocker, 2 inner fenders, 2 inner wheelhouses, an oil pan, body bushes, and 2 torque boxes) in the back of my car without removing most of the packaging and piling them on top of each other. Thankfully having done that it did all go in and only one journey was necessary.
Having got home with them, the next puzzle was working out where to store them. I've ended up with some in the shed, some in the attic, some in the car and just a couple of bits in the garage. Hopefully I'll be able to make some good progress and start using them and freeing up the space again.
Monday was a bank holiday, so a day off work. Feeling much better and keen to make up for lost time I got out as early as I could and spent the whole day outside. I'm getting good at estimating progress, as once again I got pretty much as far as I was hoping to get:
The morning started by continuing with the strip down of the interior. After removing the glove box and getting better access to the last few bolts, I was able to slide out the dash pad.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/DashpadOut.jpg)
This was swiftly moved straight into the house and into the loft. I can't afford for this to be damaged and need replacing.
With that out of the way I had clear access to get the kick panels out. The passenger side slides out relatively easily
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/PassengerKick1.jpg)
The surrounding metal looks to be in good condition
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/PassengerKick2.jpg)
So that's where the vent seal ended up
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/PassengerKick3.jpg)
Drivers side wasn't quite so simple, as the e-brake lever needs removing first, but that wasn't much trouble at all
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/DriverKick.jpg)
Again, the surrounding metal looks to be OK.
The front speakers were pulled out, and all of the heater ducting:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/FrontSpeakers.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/AirVents.jpg)
This gave me chance to look at the inner cowl area. Upper sides look a little rusty, but appear solid:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/DriverCowl1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/PassengerCowl.jpg)
The lower section on the drivers side wasn't so good, I found/made a couple of small holes that is clearly where the water that had rotted the floor (repaired a few years ago) was coming from
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/DriverCowl2.jpg)
I don't think I can get in there to do a proper repair now, so may have to do something temporary until I can remove the upper cowl panel and deal with it properly in a few years time.
Next up was the steering column. The firewall kick plate was removed, to reveal some unexpected rust
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/SteeringRust1.jpg)
Not sure how that bit is rusty, but on complete removal I can see that it's past it and won't be suitable for transferring to the replacement 3rd gen column I've got lined up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/SteeringRust2.jpg)
Not sure how it got in that condition, as the surrounding area is solid
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/SteeringHole.jpg)
Over on the passenger side, all that is remaining is the heater box. The bolts for this are on the outside, and for some unknown reason were in 4 different size bolts/nuts - I'm sure that's not stock. 2 of the bolts were very bent too, and I'll have to replace them when refitting.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/HeaterBoxOut2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/HeaterBoxOut1.jpg)
The heater core looks to be in good condition, but I am unsure of it's age. I'm in two minds on whether to replace it, as I may end up replacing it with an inferior aftermarket part.
The last two bits were the rear seating and the rear parcel shelf, complete with rear speakers. With those out I was stripped as far as needed to get on with the next jobs
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/InteriorStripped1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/InteriorStripped2.jpg)
Not bad for a mornings work!
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 06, 2014, 01:27:59 pm
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/DoorHinge1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/DoorHinge2.jpg)
Well, you'd think it would be simple. The eagle eyed amongst you will have spotted there are 3 bolts missing in the 2nd picture. The two on the door side snapped on removal. The one on the body side I had to move to the remaining hole on the door, which thankfully wasn't stripped (in which case, I'm not sure why there wasn't one there originally). I didn't want to do so, bit I will now have to remove the door completely in order to extract the broken bolts. I could have done this today, but I didn't want to be distracted from the job I wanted to do, so it will be done later.
Onto the rocker panel, I started by scraping away some of the sealer/paint to get a clear indication of the borders of the panels, and start finding the spot welds. I found it useful to have the new panel next to me to use for reference
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerFront1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerFront2.jpg)
I drilled out the front and rear spot welds from the top edge of the panel, in case the bracing I was going to add impeded me in any way
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerFront3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear1.jpg)
I then measured the door gap from front to rear, about six inches up from the rocker and cut a bit of tube to match, then cut half of the last inch of each end to give a flat surface to mate with the body. This was then tack welded into place, securing the front and rear in place
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/Bracing1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/Bracing2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/Bracing3.jpg)
I then measured and cut another bar, to join the middle of the first bar to the trans tunnel, giving left to right support
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/Bracing4.jpg)
I started with the most obvious and accessible spot welds next, top inner, where they join the inner rocker, starting from the middle and working outwards
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerMid1.jpg)
I'm only about 12 welds in and I'm already fed up with them. I've broken 3 cutting heads, so may need to adjust my technique. I'm now drilling slower and applying less force, which seems to work, although the next 6 or so welds seemed to be bigger than the cutter, so I needed to use the chisel to break them fully. I found it quite disconcerting that each whack with the hammer was echoed by the sound of falling rust underneath.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRearInner1.jpg)
I didn't go all the way across the top, figuring it would be better to do these last, rather than having the top loose whilst working on the lower side. Instead I starter to work my way around the door jamb, where the welds are less uniformly spaced. I bit of wire wheeling and prising as each one is done and they aren't too difficult to find.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear2.jpg)
At this point I figured it might help to remove some of the outer panel, so give some better access and be able to see what was tied to what.
Warning - here follows some graphic images of a disturbing nature. Please don't read any further if you can't stand the sight of rust and filler.
The first bit pulled away quite easily
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear3.jpg)
What's that lurking in there? Lets take a closer look.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear4.jpg)
I'm amazed, it's the rubber flap that fits into the inner rocker. Being as the hole is long gone, I thought this piece had too:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/Flap.jpg)
With a bit more pulling on the rocker, I found sheets of filler coming out. Looks like it's been put on quite thick
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear5.jpg)
Kept on pulling it off, all the way to the back corner and then up onto the lower rear quarter
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear6.jpg)
At this point I knew the quarter would have to come out to (I guess I always knew, but remained hopeful), so I grabbed the repair panel to check just how far up I could safely go(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/QtrPatch.jpg)
Some more digging shows the lower quarter is barely there
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear7.jpg)
More and more digging and I've got the rocker free from the quarter and inner rocker at the rear. There are 2 spot welds at the very back of the rocker joining it to the outer wheelhouse, which I will tackle when I can move the wheel out of the way
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear8.jpg)
Looks like there's lots to rebuild here
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/OuterRockerRear9.jpg)
At this point I gave up for the day and clear up the huge pile of rust and filler from the floor. The next job will be to tackle the spot welds on the underside of the rocker. Thankfully most of the rusty metal has already fallen out here and I'm back to reasonable metal.
The downside of having so many parts from a car when it's stripped down, and not having any storage space left is that it has to go back in the car between jobs(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day15/Storage.jpg)
At least it won't take so long to remove it next time.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 07, 2014, 08:12:30 pm
I'd planned to start on the lower joint, moving from rear to front. Started by scrapping off some of the paint
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/OuterRockerRear.jpg)
I soon changed my mind though, as the metal here is badly corroded and it's not easy to see a seam to fit the chisel into. Instead I moved to the front where the metal is good, and I can split it there and work backwards, splitting the rust apart when I get there.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/OuterRockerFront1.jpg)
Even this didn't go well, as I burnt through 3 cutting heads in quick succession, largely due to the spot welds being tight up against the body and it being difficult to get the drill on them straight. I can't keep going through the cutters at this rate, so a change of plan is required. To start with, I've cut a big section of the rocker out to make some space, but I may also start to grind some of the welds out, especially where I know the panel on the other side will be replaced.
Two long parallel cuts into the side of the rocker revealed a lot of crap accumulated inside
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/CutOuter1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/CutOuter2.jpg)
It also revealed a strange support piece, which I've not been able to find out what it is
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/Support.jpg)
I very nearly made a big mistake. I knew there was a part of the front kick panel that extended into the rocker area, but I wasn't sure exactly where. Thankfully, the horizontal cut just missed it
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/CutFront1.jpg)
The vertical cut wasn't so lucky, but I didn't cut too deep and can easily repair it later. There were a couple of spot welds that were on the underside of this bit, which you can see here, along with the slight cut to the front
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/CutFront2.jpg)
With that out of the way, I started on the very end, to give me the ability to wiggle the panel as I work my way backwards
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day16/OuterFront1.jpg)
And that was it for today. Not much progress, but still progress.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 19, 2014, 11:42:12 am
Saturday was part car work, part travelling to get car parts. In the morning I continued separating the rear end from the car, so that I could roll it back out of the way. The rear brake hose put up a bit of a fight but did eventually come off cleany and the wheels were lowered to the ground.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/RearDown.jpg)
Even this wasn't as smooth as I had planned as the drivers spring was still attached at the front and wasn't allowing the wheels to drop. The whole thing had shifted to the left and the shackle bolt that was still stuck to the spring was catching on the trunk drop off panel. Once I'd worked that out it was down but still not rolling. Another check around showed that I'd forgotten to remove the parking brake brackets where the cables route through the frame. They were surprisingly difficult to get out, particularly the top bolt each side, but did eventually come out without any damage.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/ParkCableDriver.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/ParkCablePass.jpg)
With that taking up more time than I had expected, I stopped for the morning and set out on the 2 hour journey to pick up the replacement frame rail I'd found. The seller was a dealer in 2nd Gen Pontiac parts and regularly cuts up shells. It was only a small yard, but proved to be a gold mine. He'd only recently cut up a fairly decent shell (which is where the frame rail came from), so I asked about a couple of other bits. Considering myself even luckier than usual, I picked up a drives side wire guard in decent condition and a section cut from under the rear seat on the drivers side, for just an extra £50 for the pair. Considering that he'd already cut the floor pan randomly, it is almost exactly the right size to match the rusty sections I need to cut out. I've not checked in detail yet, but I think there would be less than an inch of extra metal, if any at all that will need adding manually.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/Parts.jpg)
Despite a lenghtly chin wag and another 2 hours on the road home, there was still time to do some more work on the car when I got home, so it was back to cutting the outer rocker off. With the trouble I was having with braking spot weld cutters, I changed tack and tried the spot weld drill bit that came in the kit. This worked pretty well, doing a decent job of cutting and not snapping on me. The only downside is that it's slightly smaller in diameter, so required a bit more work with the chisel to seperate the pieces.
I worked my way from the front backwards, pulling the lower strip of metal outwards as I went.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/OuterRockerHalfway.jpg)
About mid-way there were a couple of extra spots, not following the regular spacing of the rest. It transpired that these are where the seat brace fits on the other side of the floor pan.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/OuterRockerExtraSpots.jpg)
It wasn't too long and the lower section was out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/OuterRockerLowerOff2.jpg)
There was a bit left at the back, which joined the outer wheel house. It was very rusty here and was flapping about too much to drill properly. Given the poor state of the wheel house, I knew I would have to patch it so I measure the distance from the door opening to the end, took a couple of reference shots and just ripped it out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/OuterRockerRear5.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/OuterRockerRear.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day17/OuterRockerRear4.jpg)
And that is enough for one day, quit while I'm ahead.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 19, 2014, 12:22:16 pm
So, unplanned, I removed the passenger door. Removal wasn't all that bad. I carefully marked around the hinges, to be used to line things back up on re-fitting, and removed the glass for safety. I pulled the hoist out of the garage and tied some rope through the holes in the frame and onto the hook on the hoist and took up the slack. Note, the rope I used streched a lot more than I expected and was probably too long for the job. When I do it again (and I will have to) I will allow a lot less slack.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/DoorCrane1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/DoorCrane2.jpg)
I then removed the bolts from the door side of the hinges (which I came to realise was the wrong way to do it) and the door swung away (carefully guided as it went). It wanted to swing around and the outerside would hit the crane, so I carefully repositioned it the other way around so it was the inner side that would rest against the crane.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/DoorOff.jpg)
I then manoevered it to get a bench underneath and lay it flat, with the intention of sorting the bolts that snapped a couple of weeks ago.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/DoorBench.jpg)
After spraying inside and out liberaly with pentrating oil, I set about drilling them to use screw extractors.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/DoorBolts2.jpg)
This didn't go well at all. One is all but completely drilled out now and still isn't moving. I think I will end up having to drill it all and tap a new thread, or just leave it. The other side didn't get that far, the extractor snapped, leaving the end in the bolt. I don't think drilling will be an option there, so the next attempt will be trying to weld a nut on the end. Either way, I wasn't happy and was aware that all of this was burning time and I needed to get a move on with the car, as the door would need to be refitted before the end of the day.
Back on the car, there were only 3 spots to cut out on the edge previously blocked by the door. I was expecting more, and wasn't sure if there were more, as the location made it difficult to get the chisel in and really break things loose.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/OuterRockerFront1.jpg)
With that done, it was back inside to do the rest of the holes on the top (Half of these were done previously). Before doing this though, I removed the shifter, making things a bit more comfortable when drilling.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/ShifterOut.jpg)
The top edge didn't take too long at all, but things still weren't moving as freely as I was expecting. I scrapped off some more seam sealer and found a regular weld joining the inner and outer rockers:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/OuterRockerFront2.jpg)
Access was akward, but thankfully I new neither piece of metal here was going to be retained, so I simply sliced around it with the Dremel. With this gone I thought I was almost there, but there was still no more movement. Out with the wire wheel, I found 3 small spot welds on the inner side, joining the outer rocker to the front kick panel. A quick bit of drilling there and there was finally some movement.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/OuterRockerFront3.jpg)
All what was left now was a couple of small welds on the tab at the very end of the rocker (front) and one on the back edge. With the front ones drilled out, the panel started to drop
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/OuterRockerLoose.jpg)
It didn't drop any further, as there was one more hidden weld, behind the rear quarter to what I think is the door jamb brace. Whatever it was, it was rotten and was easily ripped out with a bit of tugging, which also broke the final spot at the back on the outer wheel house. Finally, the outer rocker was fully removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day18/OuterRockerOut.jpg)
All that was left for today was to tidy up - re-fit the door and put all the parts back inside the car.
Re-fitting the door was nowhere near as easy as fitting, and could really have done with another pair of hands. I needed to be on one side of the door to operate the crane (for height adjustment) and then the other to fit the bolts. It didn't go smoothly and I did catch/chip the front edge of the door in doing so. (at least I'm not too worried about the paint on the doors right now - that's another project for later). Getting the bolts to catch was one thing, then getting the door/hinge location right was another, and took ages. Again, and extra pair of hands here would have been invaluable. I think next time, I will remove the hinges with the door, as refitting should be easier, and will also mean the door won't hit the hinges as it swings about.
With the door back on and adjusted (I missed an update somewhere - last week I went back to the hinges and adusted the door so that it fitted properly and didn't droop) I re-fitted to the glass, only to find that I'd got it wrong somewhere and the glass was stopping the door closing. Referring back to the Window Alignment Guide http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1442321 (I wonder which smart guy wrote that?) it didn't take long to fix, amending the stop heights and tilt on both the front and the rear. The door and window fit are now better than the've been in the whole 10 years of ownership, so at least I ended on a high.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 20, 2014, 07:29:27 am
I've been looking at lots of options for the right paint for this and the rest of the car. Based on lots of recommendations for epoxy primer I knew I wanted that, but I don't have any spraying capabilities, so it had to be brushable. I opted for the most suitable that I could find over here in the UK, which was Jotun's Jotamastic 87. Designed for marine use, it has high corrosion protection and doesn't need perfect preparation - it can even be applied when it's raining!
It's a 2 part epoxy and comes in a 5 litre tin. It only has 1 hour usage after mixing, so I had to make up just a small amount. I scuffed the inner face of the outer rocker, and also the same in the inner rocker, in case there was any paint left over.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day19/scuffed.jpg)
I've not used this type of thing before and didn't make the best job of decanting some into a measuring pot, but did end up with something I could use. It brushed on quite well, but was easy to leave thin patches. I think I started painting a bit early as it seemed very thin at first but thickened up and was easier to use as I went on. It turns out a little goes a long way, and I had mixed too much. Both panels were given a generous first coating and I still had half of what I had mixed left over. I think in future I will try to have more things prepared in case there is paint left to use, and make it up in smaller quantities.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day19/primed.jpg)
Post by: Roadkill on May 20, 2014, 02:10:11 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
Jotun's Jotamastic 87Mentally noted.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 21, 2014, 07:41:56 am
I hit it with a disc sander, and learnt that these don't like edges, especially rusty ones and ruined 2 discs very quickly. I was however quite suprised that the rust wasn't too bad (on the outside at least, I still need to look inside).
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day20/QuarterRust.jpg)
Looking in the wheel well, the rust at bottom of the outerwheel house extends a bit further up, but there is some good metal there, so patching should be fairly simple.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day20/WheelHouse.jpg)
Now the fun bit, I offered up the rocker for a trial fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day20/TrialFit1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day20/TrialFit2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day20/TrialFit3.jpg)
Given that I didn't put in much effort to line things up yet, I think it looks pretty good. The inner lip appears to be higher than the old one, but I will look at that more closely in the next session (hopefully later today), where I plan to get it lined up and put some screws in to hold it in place until I'm ready for welding.
Post by: Roadkill on May 21, 2014, 08:30:00 am
Quoting: Jamieg285
I hit it with a disc sander, and learnt that these don't like edgesDA's work better on edges, I find, although tend to be less aggressive.
I'd recommend a 3M "strip n clean" wheel . . . they're pretty cheap on eBay and take off EVERYTHING, leaving only good metal behind.
I used the purple ones on the Camaro, after my brother recommended them to me . . . probably the best thing he's ever done for me !
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 22, 2014, 12:20:09 pm
Quoting: Roadkill
I'd recommend a 3M "strip n clean" wheelRolocs. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
I've seen them recommended in the US, didn't know you could get them over here. I've ordered one and will see how it goes.
How resilient are they, is one likely to last or will I need more?
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 22, 2014, 12:49:28 pm
First off I ground off all of the burs and bumps left on the inner rocker from the spot welds and straightened up any bits that got bent. I'll not be welding onto most of it, but needed it clean to ensure proper alignment.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/SpotsGround1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/SpotsGrounded2.jpg)
I found a great way to hold the rocker roughly in place, allowing me to man handle the rest to get it where I wanted it. The holes for the scuff plates are pre-drilled, so I simply held the panel up and screwed the plate on top.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/SillPanel1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/SillPanel2.jpg)
I put a sheet metal screw into one of the front tabs that was already flush to the body, but as you can see, I had problems getting the other tabs to fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/RockerScrew1.jpg)
I took the rocker off again and had to cut a bit out of the triangle to allow it to clear the body, and also deepened the cut to the crease, to allow the panel to flex a bit more.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/RockerTweaks.jpg)
That allow it to twist a bit when I applied some pressure underneath which brought all the tabs into place and another screw was applied.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/RockerScrew2.jpg)
The front was now secured, but the panel was warping a bit due to the twist applied. I put some downward pressure on the top and put 2 screws in through the top of the inner rocker (sorry, forgot pics, will get them next time).
Then the lower needed similar treatment, pushing the bottom up at the rear, and putting a screw in the middle underneath (picture didn't come out properly)
There is still a bit of twist at the rear, but there's nothing there (yet) that I can put another screw in.
Next up was looking at patching the outer wheel house, where it joins the end of the rocker, to provide the first piece of new solid metal to weld to. The problem is, this area is so rotten I can't see what the original panel would have looked like, and I don't have a new panel to use as a donor. Guess I will just have to work it out...
Post by: Roadkill on May 22, 2014, 12:58:30 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
How resilient are they, is one likely to last or will I need more?They wear down pretty slowly . . . obviously the more force, the quicker they'll wear.
I think I used 2 on the camaro.
The thing that kills them quick is sharp edges (like the inner lip of a wheel arch).
Post by: art b on May 23, 2014, 09:53:37 am
jeez you have your work cut out for you [quite literally] there Jamie
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 23, 2014, 11:18:12 am
Quoting: art b
jeez you have your work cut out for you [quite literally] there JamieYes, but I'm having fun with it though. Bit like a big jigsaw puzzle at the moment, although I'm missing some pieces and the instructions (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 03, 2014, 07:33:42 am
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerRockerScrew1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerRockerScrew2.jpg)
I had less time than planned on Saturday, but still got a good 5 hours in. As mentioned at the end of the last update, the next job that needed doing was patching up the outer wheelhouse so that there is some good metal to mate to the outer rocker. Having looking through loads of pictures to work out what it is supposed to look like, I started working on a template.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/CardTemplate1.jpg)
It became clear that I wouldn't be able to complete the template until I knew where the metal from the new inner wheelhouse would be, so I changed tack and started to look at the inner wheelhouse instead. First up was working out just how much to cut out. I didn't want to take out too much, as there were custom brackets for the rear seats which I wanted to leave intact if possible. I made a note of where that was on the inside, just above the strengthening crease, and then started scrapping off the paint and rust to see where the rot stopped. Thankfully it wasn't too bad, and I marked out the maximum I wanted to remove.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQMark1.jpg)
Before cutting, there were a few spot welds to deal with, but these were so rusty and neither side of the metal was going to be retained, so I was able to easily chisel them apart.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQSpotWelds2.jpg)
Then, from the inside I started cutting away, starting at the minimum I wanted to cut away, followed by cuttting along the same line on the outside to get the areas that the angle grinder couldn't get to inside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQCut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQCut3.jpg)
To make sure I didn't cut too far, I drilled a small reference hole from the inside, that showed me where to stop on the outside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQGuideHole1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQGuideHole2.jpg)
That piece was then removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQCut4.jpg)
It turned out that I wasn't happy with the size of that hole, so cut to my max size mark, starting from the outside and then finishing on the inside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQCut6.jpg)
The inner and outer wheelhouse panels meet along the curve, and I found a number of small, closely spaced spot welds.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQSpotWelds4.jpg)
These were drilled out and the cut extended across to the door jamb, diverting downwards to avoid my bracing (in hindsight I'd put these a bit higher up)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQCut8.jpg)
Now I used the cut out pieces against the new panel to let me know where to cut the new patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerQPieces2.jpg)
It looks a bit small, just a fraction of the full panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/NewInnerQCut1.jpg)
Now I was able to offer up the patch into place, just roughly at this time, in able for me to finalise the cardboard template for the outer wheelhouse.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/NewInnerOffered.jpg)
Then the template was transferred to sheet metal, along with some alignment guides.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/OuterWHPatch1.jpg)
The new piece was then bent roughly into shaped, offered up into place and a final cut made to the existing panel to make them line up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/OuterWHCut1.jpg)
The new panel was then trimmed and screwed into place, into the end of the outer rocker, and the the inner wheelhouse patch was offered back up again to check clearances and fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/OuterWHPatch2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerOuterCheck3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/InnerOuterCheck2.jpg)
That was it for the day, after packing up I headed out to Northampton to relax and watch some racing.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/Racing1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day22/Racing2.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 03, 2014, 12:46:14 pm
Welding the outer wheelhouse patch was trickier than I thought it would be. This was the first time I'd welded with a decent C02/Argon mix (used pure CO2 until now) and it was hotter than I was used to, and I spent a lot of time chasing blow throughs on the old metal. The more I did the better I got, but I would definitely have been better of replacing the old metal here too if I had the chance. Anyway, it didn't take too long to get this on and the welds ground back. I didn't bother to spend too much time making it look pretty, as the inner face will be hidden, and the outer face covered with some suitable underbody coating at a later stage.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/OuterWHWelded1.jpg)
I wasn't sure at this stage whether to press on and weld the outer rocker on, or if I would be better off looking at the missing door jamb brace. Bearing in mind that I wouldn't be able to put weld the rocker until after I had painted at least the inner face of the new metal, I figured I might as well tackle the brace now, whilst I still had the opportunity to remove the rocker if needed. As it happened, I didn't need to remove it for that, but I did further down the line.
The brace is a bit of guess work, as the existing one was almost totally gone. Having studied the remains and as many pictures as I could find (none of which showed me exactly what I needed to see, but the combination got me close enough) I hatched a plan that would see a decent brace lap welded over the original, giving the right support, if not the originality.
First up was a paper template, easy to fold and shape around the various corners.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceTemplate1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceTemplate2.jpg)
This unfolded to this rough shape, which was then transferred to cardboard, which being stiffer would give me a much more accurate shape before transerring to metal.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceTemplate3.jpg)
Realising I would need to remove some of the existing brace to get rid of the rusty bits, I had to open up the hole I had made in the quarter to get better access. Even with the bigger hole I had to use a couple of different cutting tools to get into the tight spaces.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/QtrCut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceCut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceCut2.jpg)
I went a bit too far at one point and almost went through the metal. It's a bit thin there now and will cause me some issues when I get to welding in that area later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/Oops1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/Oops2.jpg)
I was now able to do a proper fit with the cardboard template.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceTemplate4.jpg)
It was at this point that I remembered reading about this brace and how it ties in with the quarter and the rocker. It was important that this patch was long enough to reach the rocker, but left enough space to slot the bottom of the quater patch in between them. At this point it became clear that I needed to incorporate the quarter patch properly into the plans, to ensure that it all fitted together properly.
The patch panel I have is shockingly bad, but from what I have read the same as all the others. It's about 1/2 too wide, as you can see here comparing the passenger and drivers sides.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day21/QtrPatch2.jpg)
This meant that I would need to cut it both horizontally and vertically in some way to make it fit. At this stage, I'm going to try and re-use the front part of the panel on the car, where it folds around to meet the door jamb, and weld the patch in along the edge. Not sure how well this will go, so I have kept the bit that has been cut off the patch, as I think I may need it later.
Now that I needed to properly trial fit the quarter patch, I extended the cut (again) up the left hand edge to get rid of the rust on the outer seam. I then cut down at an angle to join the existing cut.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/QtrCut1.jpg)
Realising that such a shape would be difficult to match properly to the patch, I cut yet again, but this time had the patch clamped over the top and cut through both patch and car panel together, ensuring they were the same shape.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/QtrPatch1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/QtrPatch2.jpg)
With that worked out, it was back to the brace, now outlined and ready for cutting from the sheet steel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/BraceTemplate5.jpg)
Careful cutting and bending, followed by more bending, and more bending (I lost track of how many times I trekked backwards and forwards from the vice until I was happy with the final shape) it was done. The lower edge of the brace mates perfectly with the bottom of the quater patch, which mates perfectly with the outer rocker. This isn't the best picture to show it, but I will get more another time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/Brace2.jpg)
When it comes to final fitting, I will drill two holes down through the brace and quarter together, then spot weld then to the rocker, coming in with the welder from the hole on the inside of the car.
The next piece of unexpected work was to complete the outer wheelhouse patch, where it joins with the quarter patch. All of the work I had done so far needed painting before going any further, so it was clear I needed to finish this piece now.
I started by cutting away the worst of the rust, and then made another cardboard template.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/OuterWH1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/OuterWHTemplate1.jpg)
This was then transferred to the sheet metal, cut and bent to shape.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/OuterWHPatch1.jpg)
This was then welded into place and ground back. Access to the lower few inches was impeded by the outer rocker, so this had to be unscrewed and removed. While it's off I'll be able to touch up some of the thinner areas of the paint and spots that have been scratched.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/OuterWHPatch2.jpg)
At the end of the day, with the outer rocker gone again, huge holes cut in the quarter and inner wheelhouse, it feels like I've gone backwards, despite the massive amount of work I'd done. At least I know that after these bits are painted, it won't take long to get them in place and welded in, and I can then move onto the inner rocker and floor pan.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/Backwards.jpg)
Whilst packing up, and with the tools already out, I spent a short time back on the gauges re-inforcement panel. The holes were now cut out and a trial fit to the bezel was possible.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/GaugesHoles1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/GaugesTrialFit.jpg)
However, when I moved onto cutting the outer edges, it didn't go to plan.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day23/GaugesCut.jpg)
I hadn't planned on it falling apart due to so little metal at the thin parts (and I've lost one corner - not sure how that happened) I couldn't be bothered to try and sort it now, but will have to have a proper look another time.
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 03, 2014, 12:52:08 pm
Despite spending out on some ultra thin cutting discs, I was still getting rather large cuts in the metal. It turns out the bearings have gone on the grinder and the shaft is wobbling. A replacement will have to be found quite soon.
And finally, always remember to wear your gloves when working around sharp metal. I forgot at one point and within 2 minutes had jabbed my thumb right onto a sharp rusty edge. Bloody painful and took ages to stop the bleed. The next 30 minutes or so slowed me right down as I tried to carry on working one handed.
Post by: art b on June 03, 2014, 09:55:28 pm
now wheres my rusty vw..(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Post by: Roadkill on June 04, 2014, 10:31:26 am
Quoting: Jamieg285
always remember to wear your gloves when working around sharp metalPfft, years spent man-handling sheet metal onto guillotines and presses soon hardens the tips of your fingers up !
I really can't work with gloves . . . which is totally stupid as I'm in charge of telling dozens of people to wear them.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 09, 2014, 12:39:37 pm
I'd started on a 3rd gen piece that came free with a steering box, but on comparison both ends were shorter than the ones on my car, so they'll be scrapped. I'd got the original shaft off mine, and a spare bought in from the US. Turns out it was a good thing I did get that spare, as the upper and lower shafts on mine had rusted solid and no amount of persuasion was going to separate them. The space shaft separated quite easily, and although quite pitted in places, it will do the job.
These were prep'd for paint, along with a few of the front end parts. The rest of the day was spent painting these and the panels I've been working with, some of which would be fitted the next day.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day24/Rockers.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day24/LatchSupport.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day24/LatchBatteryTray.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day24/SteeringShaft1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day24/QtrPatch.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day24/BraceShaft.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 09, 2014, 01:07:02 pm
The brace was double checked for fit against the body and quarter patch and the paint from the areas where the two pieces would be welded. Holes were drilled for spot welding and then coated the bare metal with weld through primer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/InnerBrace.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/BraceQtrMatch.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/InnerPrep.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerMark1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerPrep1.jpg)
Whilst the rocker was in place to help guide fitting the brace, I marked on it where the spot welds would be needed on the lower edge, figuring it will be easier to drill these with the panel off the car.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/SpotsMarked.jpg)
The brace was then welded in place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/BraceWelded1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/BraceWelded2.jpg)
The rocker was then removed and the spot holes drilled, with care taken to measure the ones on the underside going up to the kick panel support.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerDrilled.jpg)
Again, any area that would be welded was stripped clean and weld through primer applied. I've now learnt the lesson that it will be easier to work out where this needs doing and masking before painting, as it's tough stuff and takes ages to remove.
The rocker was now ready for fitting, so was offered back into place and screwed into place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/Ready1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/Ready2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/Ready3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/TrialFit.jpg)
I needed to a final bit of prep, marking/drilling spot weld holes in the outer wheelhouse.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/WHmarked.jpg)
Then it was time to go at it with the welder. Initial results were quite poor, I think because I wasn't getting a good current to the panel, resulting in good welds on the body, but no penetration into the rocker. Once I'd got some decent welded joints, the rest went a lot better, but I have left myself with some rough welds to clean up. Still, it's on and it's solid.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerWelded1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerWelded2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerWelded3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerWelded4.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day25/RockerWelded5.jpg)
I wasn't sure how I would deal with the outer rocker, but I worked it out and it's gone OK. I have even less knowledge on how to do the next job - the inner rocker/passenger floor/torque box, and I have no idea where to start with it. I'll guess I'll just have to dive in and see what happens.
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 11, 2014, 12:32:52 pm
Instead I started doing some of the basics inside the car, cleaning out all of the dust and crap that had accumulated over the years and recent weeks, making it easier to see what I was working with.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day26/PassPanRearCleaned.jpg)
With a small wire brush I started to locate some of the spot welds.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day26/FindSpots1.jpg)
It became clear that some things would need to be removed, specifically a wire guide near the inner wheel house and the rear seat buns bracket that I fitted for the 4th gen seats. The latter I may get away with not removing, but might be able to cut some of it out and weld it back later. Either way, I took some reference measurements for later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day26/BracketRef.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day26/SeatMountMeasure.jpg)
I wasn't finding as many welds as I was expecting, so I had the bright idea of using the new panel to work out where the spot welds might be. Here it is layed in place and some rough markings added to the floor.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day26/MarkingOutline.jpg)
One thing this exercise has highlighted is a problem with the location of the seat belt bolt hole. It's not the best picture, so I've added some arrows showing the current bolt location and the new one being about 3 inches too far back. Annoying, but not too difficult to cut out and re-locate.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day26/BeltHole.jpg)
That was it for the day. I might get a bit more time tonight, but again it won't be long.
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 16, 2014, 12:40:46 pm
Thurs saw my biggest 'DOH' and face palm moment so far. Thankfully it wasn't too serious and could have been worse. Pressing on I'd decided that the best thing to do next was take the SFCs out, so that they were out of the way when working on the floor. You may also remember that the drivers side was blocking the last bolt on the spring pocket.
I spent about 30 mins (seemed longer) very carefully cutting along the seam of the SFC to the rear frame rail, taking care not to cut too deeply into either side, but only cutting the weld.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day27/RearRailCut.jpg)
About 1 inch from the end the disc snagged and disintegrated, and also jammed the grinder, which then took another 30 mins, 2 bent tools and some lateral thinking to get the broken disc off. Neither of these incidents were the issue though. Later that evening, it occurred to me that after the last lot of research I'd realised that the torque boxes would have to be removed upwards, not downwards, in which case the SFCs weren't in the way and didn't need to be removed at all. On another inspection, I could see that the only cut on the SFC that would be required was a fairly short strip on the outer edge, the only spot where the SFC and torque box actually meet.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day27/DriversRearRailCut3.jpg)
Having decided that the SFCs would stay, I set about getting that last spring bolt out. It was very close, the socket almost fits, but not enough to get proper purchase on the nut
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day27/DriversPocketSocket1.jpg)
I was prepared to cut the SFC there if required, but started off with just a bit of surface grinding. Taking the rusted surface off alone was almost sufficient, and just a little more (taking care not to grind the bolt) was good and the socket went on and the bolt came out (again without breaking the cage nut!)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day27/SFCGrind.jpg)
And that was the drivers spring out
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day27/DriversSpringOut.jpg)
Before going any further with the cutting of the floor, I wanted to get a brace in place to assist with the location of the torque boxes. I'd been given advice about using the spring pockets and some bar to do this, so I set about getting these off the springs. Before doing this, I decided to remove the remaining shackle bolts and bushes from the rear ends. Boy was that tough. I got seriously hot and bothered, thought I'd screwed my ball joint press on a couple of occasions, getting so fed up that I didn't take any pictures (sorry). Eventually though, I did get them out and was able to switch to the other end of the spring.
The bolts were severely rusted, so I hit them with some generous amounts of rust penetration fluid. Despite this, they aren't budging. It didn't help that the spring isn't being held and flaps about as I try to exert force on the wrench. All it seems to be doing is trying to bend the spring. I eventually gave up, packed up in a huff to think about how to go at it differently next time.
First off will be the rattle gun (I keep forgetting about this useful tool) and if that doesn't work I will have to cut them off, but try to work out how to do it so that the springs don't get ruined and cannot be re-used.
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 18, 2014, 12:51:58 pm
I attacked the spring pockets with the electric impact wrench, which I now rate as one of my best value for money tools. This has got me out of a few tight spots now.
Even then it wasn't easy, but eventually the nuts did start moving and spun free. I used the tool on the bolt too, to free it from the bushing sleeve and they quickly rotated out and the springs were finally fully stripped down.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day28/PocketsOff.jpg)
I don't think I'll be reusing this one...
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day28/PocketHole.jpg)
With the pockets off, it highlights the offset on the front spring eye. I'm considering trying to correct these, making them even or possibly offset by matching amounts left to right.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day28/SpringEyes.jpg)
Next I bolted the bare pockets back onto the car and started to make up some brackets to join then to the body to use for alignment later. Didn't get that far really.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day28/Bracket.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 24, 2014, 12:45:40 pm
Target for today was to get the passenger side torque box out, or get as far as I could in the time I had. You'll have seen in a previous post that I had already started to clean up the floor pan to find the spot welds and started cutting some of them out. I'd stopped there, wanting to fit a locating bracket for the spring pocket, before anything shifted. The original idea was a long bracket across the car, linking both pockets together and to the body. With the decision that the SFC would remain, I changed the plan and made a small bracket that was welded to the spring pocket, then bolted with 2 screws to the SFC. The 2 pieces that have screws were fitted to the SFC, then welded to the other part of the bracket.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/PocketBracket.jpg)
Once this was done, I subsequently removed the pocket and moved it out of harms way, before going back to attack the floor pan. A few more spots were drilled out so that I could start to peel the pan up from the rear edge.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/SpotWelds1.jpg)
I didn't want to remove too much of the pan, only what is necessary at this stage (more may come out later). I wanted to add a cut just outside the rear frame rail, so went underneath with a drill and made a few guide holes.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/MarkerHoles2.jpg)
Back in the cab I highlighted these and played dot-to-dot. The 4th gen seat bracket was in the way as there were spot welds directly under it, in the original seat mounting bracket. Rather than remove it, I sliced the outer edge off, just enough to be able to get the drill next to it. I may or may not re-attach it later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/MarkerHolesMarked.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/MarkerHolesMarked2.jpg)
All the spots along this line were then cut out, the seat bracket bent up and a quick slice with the angle grinder from the back of the pan to just past the front of the torque box, then across towards the inner rocker. As the inner rocker would be coming out as well, I saved time by cutting into this too, rather than trying to seperate it from the floor.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/SeatBracketUp.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/LineCut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/CutInner1.jpg)
With the pan now cut, I was able to start peeling it up and getting access to the torque box below.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/PeelBack.jpg)
I only cut the floor pan where it was in the way of the welds joining the torque box to the rear frame. There was no need to fully separate the floor from the torque box, again saving time. It wasn't long before most of the torque box was visible. A quick cleanup showed me 3 spots along the bottom, going down into the rail.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/Spots.jpg)
With these dispensed, I sensed I was getting close (wrong!) I now cut the weld that joined the torque box to the SFC. It was tricky due to the limited space, but I thought it went OK.
I was now expecting to be able to lift the whole thing out, but it still wouldn't budge, and was still firmly attached. A quick look on the drivers side donor showed me that there were some more spots on the inner side, which coudln't be drilled out from the top. I had to crawl underneath and clean off the side of the rail. I know there were at least 3, maybe 4 there, but I was only able to find 2. These were very difficult to drill out, partially due to the proximity to the floor and also it was hard to get decent pressue on the drill from underneath.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/Spots3.jpg)
With those two cut I went back up top and started hitting with the spot weld chisel to separate the two pieces and try to find the missing welds. Thankfully there was only one, and it broke away and didn't need drilling.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/Spots2.jpg)
With those gone, I had to be there - but no. It was still firmly stuck, so I started pounding from all angles, bending and forcing things to try and find out where it was sticking. Eventually, 2 more spots revealed themselves, on the lower edge going down.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/Spots4.jpg)
That had to be it - right? Yes and no, that was the last of the spot welds, but the cut weld underneath wasn't fully cut. I had to prise the metal up from the other side, to get it at a suitable angle to finally cut all the way through, and finally it was loose, and with a bit of a wiggle, out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/Out1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/OutHole.jpg)
Timing for the day was almost spot on, but not quite enough. I didn't have time to clean up the spot welds, but I did give the new torque box a quick trial fit. It didn't go straight in, but will only need the spot welds cleaning and a bit of tweaking.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day29/TrialFit.jpg)
The next job will be to continue removing the rest of the inner rocker. Wish me luck...
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 01, 2014, 12:51:24 pm
Thankfully, things were a lot better yesterday. I took another afternoon off work and really got stuck in, making up for the lack of work on the previous two days. In the 5 hours I put in I was able to fully remove the inner rocker, passenger footwell (almost) and start trial fitting the new panel and torque box. Here's how I got there...
I'd made life for myself more difficult than it should have been by not trying to deal with the floor pan to inner rocker spot welds when the outer rocker was off and access was good. I didn't fancy trying to use the drill on them from underneath the car, so decided to just split them apart by pounding away with the hammer and chisel. First up was clearing off all of the seam sealer so that I could see where I was working. This also revealed more trauma in the passenger footwell.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/SeamSealer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/MoreRust.jpg)
I then started from the rear working forwards with the chisel. The back half was fairly easy as the metal was quite thin here (I will probably extend the rear pan patch forward to replace this)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/ChiselOut1.jpg)
As with the outer rocker, I made the decision early on to section the panel as I went to make it easier to see and manipulate the panel as I went.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/CutOut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/CutOut2.jpg)
That was the extent of progress over the weekend. You can see why it was a disappointment.
The next day things started to get tougher. I was moving away from the rusted section into the solid metal and where the seat braces came into the equation. These were much harder to separate, and initially I skipped over them, considering cutting around them instead. Brute force and ignorance got the better of me though, and I did go back and pound away.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/SeatBrace.jpg)
As I got further forward, it became clear that the solid floor was making it harder to separate the panels as there was no give on either side. I paused with attack on the rocker and moved to the floor pan instead. First off was separating the floor from the firewall/toe board.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FloorPanSplit.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FloorPanSplit2.jpg)
With that seam apart, two quick cuts around the worst of the rust, some wriggling to break the rusted edge and there was a large hole.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/CutFloorPan.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FloorHole1.jpg)
The toe board also extended over to the rocker, so I cut/peeled the worst of this away too, revealing the front end of the rocker panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/PeelToe.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FrontInner1.jpg)
There was some seam welding along the top edge of the rocker panel which needed grinding away, and then some small spot welds where the panel sits flush to the kick panel. These were too close to the curve of the panel to get the drill into, so I had to chisel down to them, also using the grinder on the face to thin the metal a bit. Inch by inch I was able to move forward, peeling the panel out as I went.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FrontPeeled1.jpg)
There were a few akward spot welds underneath on the lower edge, although some of the akwardness was from where the axle stand was close by, restricting access. Some I was able to get with the chisel, some the spot weld cutter and some an cutting disc.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FrontSpots.jpg)
I was expecting a run of spot welds around the top and front edge, but was relieved when I found there wasn't and the panel was now free. A bit of wiggling was required, but eventually it fell out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/InnerOut.jpg)
A quick bit of cleanup with the grinder to get rid of the spot welds and chunks left after chiseling and I was able to go for a trial fit of the new rocker. It took a bit of massaging, but did slide in OK once I got the angle right.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/InnerTrailFit1.jpg)
On closer inspection, I found a tab on the panel that would have to be removed. Either that or I would have to start separating the kick panel from the firewall, and I wasn't going there!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FrontTab.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/FrontTab2.jpg)
This was quickly sliced off and the panel re-fitted, fitting really well. A bit of massaging will be required to get everying lined up for welding, but it's not far off. I also dropped the torque box in to see how that went, and it looked good too.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/TrialFit2.jpg)
I was going to fit the spring pocket to the torque box to see if it needed re-aligning, but ran into a problem. Of the 3 holes where you'd put the bolt clips, only 1 has been drilled. I guess that will be the first job next time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day30/TorqueDiffs.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 09, 2014, 12:25:05 pm
I had two mornings to work on the car at the weekend. The weather forecast for the day wasn't good, so I opted to take on a job that I could do in the shelter of the garage if the rain came. I figured a good task would be to take the replacement rear floor patch and separate off the redundant bits, namely the sections of frame rail, torque box and inner rocker.
I battled with it for more than 3 hours, making a real mess of the side seam, braking all bar one of my remaining spot weld cutters in the process :-( Finally though, it was all split apart, leaving just the floor pan section.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day31/Split.jpg)
The edge isn't looking too hot, but at least it won't be too tricky to repair.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day31/Edge.jpg)
The next day was better weather, but less time available. I wanted to get the torque box location sorted so that I could move onto the floor pan. Things didn't start well, with the bracket made to hold the spring pocket in place seperating and loosing the location reference. I did my best to repair it, but I'm not convinced it went back in exactly the same place. Either way, I found there was very little wiggle room for the torque box to go, so it will go where it fits regardless. I lined it up against the spring pocket and marked the mounting holes for drilling. Quickly drilled them out and went to fit the spring clips, only to find they didn't line up with the holes. I had no option other than to mark the locations of the spring clip holes (which were close to the existing holes, but not close enough, and then cut them out with a dremel.
I didn't get any pictures that day, and to be fair, there wasn't much visual progress, although I did achieve the aim of being ready to look at the floor pan next.
Yesterday I had a free couple of hours, so dug the floor pan out of the garage. The first thing I did was use the edge to make a template to use to repair the other side.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/Template.jpg)
Then I carefully moved it inside the car to get an idea of the fit. Doesn't look too bad, it's just a shame that I can't fit it in in one piece and will be sectioning it out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/TrialFit1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/TrialFit2.jpg)
With it laid in place, I marked the current gaps from the underside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/Marker.jpg)
This floor pan is only available for the early 70's models, here I can see a big differnce in the profile at the front. I think I will extend the cut further into the transtunnel, where the profiles will match, then it's just the rear edge that I will need to make fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/Profile.jpg)
At this point, I'm about 1/2 hour in and the sun is still shining. There's a couple of small spots of rain and the sky is darkening a little. I figure it's only light and will soon pass.
10 minutes later, how wrong could I be:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/Rain1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/Rain2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day32/River.jpg)
I cowered in the garage for half an hour, waiting for it to pass, but it never did, so gave up I got soaked clearing up.
Post by: Roadkill on July 09, 2014, 09:06:36 pm
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/clap3.gif)
Post by: FUBAR on July 11, 2014, 03:01:44 am
Quoting: Roadkill
Fair play for keeping going . . . I think I would've run a mile by now !Ultimate admiration for you Jamie, your dedication to sorting the Camaro is Epic,,, truly Epic.
When this is finished and you're driving your Camaro again the smile on your face is going to hurt it'll be so huge.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/beavisnbutthead.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rock.gif) (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/beavisnbutthead.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 14, 2014, 12:57:50 pm
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/Compare1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/Compare2.jpg)
The conclusion was that the differences are all between the toe-board and the rear most seat mounting points. The rear section is the same and wouldn't cause any problems, but there is a clear profile difference that will need to be dealt with. The spacing left-right of the seat bolts is different and it looks like the cross brace would be different too. It was this that made me conclude to not try to fit the whole panel, but to cut front and rear sections.
Before going any further, I extended the cuts to the existing floor. The rear was extended along the rocker edge, to get rid of some of the thinner rusted areas at the joint.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/ExtendedCut.jpg)
The front was widened to blend into the trans tunnel, where the new and old panel would be the same profile. I am expecting to have to cut some more up front, but for now I am concentrating on the rear.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/ExtendCutFront.jpg)
With that done, and some more careful marking from the underside I took the plunge and split the new panel into 3.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/CutFitFront.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/CutFitRear.jpg)
I wonder if there is a market for unwanted middle sections?
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/SparePart.jpg)
Despite the extra width on the front hole, the panel still isn't dropping any further into place yet. Looking closer, it looks like the the profile difference on the outside is the problem now. I will deal with that later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/Underside1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/Underside2.jpg)
The first rough cut of the rear panel wasn't too bad and only needed a little bit of trimming to get spot on. It didn't look like anywhere was cut too short :-) With it all trimmed, I offered up all of the pieces to see what the overall fit would be.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/TrailFit.jpg)
With all that sorted, the last thing I wanted to do before prep for welding was to deal with a little bit of rust on the rear panel behind the rear seat, and also get inside the frame rail to treat and paint it whilst it was accessible. A bit more digging found a bit more rust, so I cut this out and across the top of the frame rail.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/RearSection.jpg)
The section that needed replacing looked quite complex with different curves and a lip to meet the floor pan. I tried to save myself some work by using a section from the unused floor pan that already had some curves on it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/Template.jpg)
It wasn't off, but needed quite a lot of persuassion to get it to a point where I was happy with it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/LooseFit.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/ShapedTrial.jpg)
That's all the metal work prep for the rear section now, so it was onto getting ready to weld. First step here was to fit all of the pieces in place and mark where they needed to be welded, so that I could drill spot holes were required and also not paint them in that area. Here are the pieces after I drilled the holes, note I have also relocated the hole where the rear seat belt nut would fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day33/SpotWelds.jpg)
I ran out of time to go any further. I need to mark the areas to be welded on the inner rocker so that I can strip the primer and replace it with weld-through primer. I also need to prep the edges of the original floor pan.
Post by: art b on July 15, 2014, 11:56:48 am
your gonna be good at welding after all this (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 15, 2014, 12:47:19 pm
Not done too much welding on it yet, but that will soon change...
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 25, 2014, 12:58:21 pm
With the rear section all but done I had to turn my attention to the front, as I can't start welding in until the whole side is ready as they all internconnect. I also found that I couldn't get the front section of the floor pan in with the inner rocker in place, so this has to go in first.
Having drilled the spot weld holes in the side of the floor pan, I tried to do the same with sections still attached to the car. Access was all but impossible, and bearing in mind the condition isn't A1, I decided to cut the full side section out and have a completely new edge to weld with.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/FloorPanEdge.jpg)
First job here was to check the two pans for differences. There were the same along the edge, to about 3 inches in from the side, so I decided to cut midway into this section.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/Compare1.jpg)
As with everything else, I hit the paint with the wire brush to find the spot welds, cut them out and then peeled the metal up, working from the rear to the front where the floor had been removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/CutAndPeel1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/CutAndPeel2.jpg)
Then it was a simple job of cutting the matching piece from the centre section of the floor pan and gringing it until it fitted as required. You will note that it's about 6 inches too short. This is because the front section has only been roughly cut so far, with plenty of overlap to assist in the final fit. Once I've dealt with that, the remains can be used to fill this hole, or I can easily fab it up if required.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/NewPiece.jpg)
With the side sorted it was time to concentrate on the passenger footwell. First job was to extend the cuts to get rid of all the rusted bits.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/PassFloor2.jpg)
The brace underneath had been attacked quite badly. Most of it was surface rust, but there was a really rough section that had a hole in, so this was cut out and a replacement cut to fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/Brace1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/Brace2.jpg)
Once happy that no more metal was coming out I started to mark/cut the new pan to match the hole.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/PanMarked1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/PanCut1.jpg)
With the front and sides of this section sorted, it was on to the trickier job of matching the rear. The profiles of the early and late pans are quite different, with high and low differences, but to make it more difficult the transition is halfway across the floor, not from edge to edge. In this pic you can see the left part matches OK, but the right side drops about an inch, about 8 inches from the side.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/PanCut2.jpg)
Looking underneath, you can see that the right side is way too high and needs to drop.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/TooHigh2.jpg)
If I line the lower side of the pan up, you can then see that the end of the pan is too low.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/HeightDiff.jpg)
It was clear that it would need some sort of step, which fortunately was already in the new pan, just in the wrong place. I found that using this offcut and offering it into place, it was just the right size.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/Step.jpg)
The problem though was neither the main pan or the step piece were good to go as they were, and both needed plenty of 'help' to get them to line up and correctly meet with each other and the existing floor section. Here it is roughly shaped. I will weld the step patch to the main patch before final welding into the car, and will do the final massaging into shape at that time when things are being held solidly.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/Patch1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day34/MatchedPanels.jpg)
Apart from filling that small gap down the side, the next jobs will be to get everthing ready for welding. Some final grinding and shaping of edges, cleaning the edges (not looking forward to the underside!), and primering anything that won't be accessible after welding, then I'll be good to go. Hopefully, within the next 2 weeks the passenger side floor will be completed (apart from painting)
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 30, 2014, 12:36:40 pm
With the floor pan patches roughly cut to shape, it was time to concentrate on getting everything ready for welding, and it turns out there is an awful lot to consider. With the interconnecting nature of the all the panels, I need to make sure every spot weld hole is drilled and all surfaces are stripped on all panels where they meet. If I miss one and don't spot it until after the welding has started it will be almost impossible to sort out then, so it has to be right now.
There are a few areas that I won't have access to paint once the panels are in, specifically the front and rear brace sections. These I want to coat with the epoxy primer now, so these were the first areas to be addressed.
The front brace under the toe board needed repairing, so the first job was to lift and move the frame out of the way so that I had good access to both sides.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/ShiftFrame1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/ShiftFrame2.jpg)
Next was cleaning the underseal off the underside in the area of the weld, but I couldn't help but start roughly stripping the crud of a wider area. I'm not lookin forward to when I've got to do this properly so that I can primer the underside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/CleanBrace.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/CleanFloor.jpg)
The small patch was very simple to weld, and I was pretty pleased with how the weld went. Not perfect yet, but a lot better than my first stabs usually go. Some good penetration and only needing a little bit of filling from the backside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/WeldOne.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/WeldOne2.jpg)
A bit of extra welding and then grinding back and I'm happy.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/WeldClean.jpg)
While the welder was out, I started attaching the transition patch into the front section.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/FloorPatch1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/FloorPatch2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/FloorPatchClean1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/FloorPatchClean2.jpg)
With this patch welded in place, I'm not sure that I've made the patch deep enough and there may be a gap to be filled between it and the original floor. I've held off making the last side section, as mentioned in the previous post, as I can make this an L-shaped piece to fill any gap if required.
That was all the welding done for the day, the rest was drilling and grinding panels.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/InnerPrep.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day35/FloorPrep.jpg)
I also discovered that the inner rocker wouldn't go in with the front floor pan in, and it wouldn't go in the other way around either. I had to bend the front of the floor section back a bit so that it cleared. I checked and I will be able to bend it back to where it needs to be from the underneath, once all the panels are in place and partially welded.
Despite a good few hours work being done, there is STILL more prep work to be done before I can start welding it all in. I'm hoping for an evening or two this week to get the patches of primer done, final spot weld holes cut and weldig areas cleaned up. I've got the full weekend to myself this weekend, and I want the passenger side all welded and as close to ready for primer as possible.
Post by: art b on July 30, 2014, 10:00:37 pm
new panels why are they so difficult to make fit ..(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/can.gif)
Post by: FUBAR on July 30, 2014, 10:36:32 pm
It would drive me stir-crazy-mad that the new panels are rusting before you've even put them in though...(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rtfm.gif)
Post by: Roadkill on July 31, 2014, 08:11:32 am
Post by: art b on July 31, 2014, 12:03:31 pm
Quoting: FUBAR
It would drive me stir-crazy-mad that the new panels are rusting before you've even put them in thoughits the genuine 70's look...(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/tongue.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 01, 2014, 12:11:00 pm
Quoting: FUBAR
Very well done rebuilding this car Jamie Technically, I haven't rebuilt very much of it yet, mostly taking apart and cutting up. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/confused.gif)
Quoting: FUBAR
It would drive me stir-crazy-mad that the new panels are rusting before you've even put them in though...I know, far from ideal. It could though be worse. I've read a number of posts about people that had panels with the black EDP, which had rust underneath which ate through the paint some time after installation. At least I can see this and sand it off before painting.
Quoting: Roadkill
Good stuff - the welds are looking increasing better. Ta. Should be really good once the pans are done. I dread to think how many hours that will take.
Post by: F Body on August 03, 2014, 02:50:57 pm
I have never firstly seen a car that was running with that much corrosion and secondly still basically together without the whole body stripped down (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/shame.gif)
But when you don't have a garage needs must (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/worship.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 04, 2014, 01:11:03 pm
It started with a short session on Friday evening, getting a few items in primer, specifically concentrating on the areas that would be inaccessible once the welding was started.
First off was final prep of the torque box, scuffing the EDP and re-welding the seat belt nut back on (but now in the right place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/ScuffBox.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/WeldBeltNut.jpg)
Next was prep'ing the patch panels, hand sanding with 60-grit to get rid of the surface rust and give a good key for the primer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/PatchSanded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/FrontPatchSanded.jpg)
Quite a bit later than expected I was able to mix up the primer and apply some paint
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/PrimerBox.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/PrimerRail.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/PrimerPatches.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day36/PrimerFront.jpg)
Saturday was shorter than expected, so I didn't get as much done. Rain just after lunch put a stop to things, so I switched to doing some house maintenance instead. While the going was good though, I made good progress with the torque box installation.
The primer was dry enough to work with, so the first job was to strip it from any area that would be welded.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day37/CleanSpots.jpg)
A quick spray of weld through primer and it was offered into position and ready to be welded.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day37/OfferUp.jpg)
Note to self - remember to turn on the gas before welding. Thankfully it was only 1 spot weld that went down with it off, and it didn't look too bad. The rest though were much better.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day37/WeldingBox1.jpg)
The run underneath, joining the box to the SFC's was no where near as good as the original, but it was solid and showed good penetration, so was good enough for me.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day37/BoxToSFC.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day37/GoodPenetration.jpg)
With the torque box installed, it was time to focus on the rear section of the floor pan. I tapped it into position, then used a couple of sheet metal screws to pull it down fully into place, and then started to drill the next set of holes to be welded.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day37/PanDrilling.jpg)
And that's when the rain came :-(
Sunday was a nice sunny day, all day, so I was able to get more done, and was the first time for a long time that I felt I had really achieved something.
First off was finishing drilling the floor pan, including drilling a hole for where the seatbelt bolt will go.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/SpotWeldHoles.jpg)
Before that part could go in, I needed to put in the small patch in the rear corner, where the floor rises to meet the trunk floor. It was offered into place, with the floor patch also in place and screwed down. A bit of massaging (whacking with a hammer) and a couple of sheet metal screws were required to get to to match the contours of the existing metal and the floor patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/OfferUp.jpg)
Once happy, and as with the other pieces of pan, this was hand sanded and then drilled, with a coat of primer put on the non-accessible sections. As the primer is made up in batches, I put some on the top side of the other patch, applied it over the recent welds and gave some of the other bits a second coat, to try and use up the spare paint.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/SandAndHoles.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/Primer.jpg)
After the primer was dry enough to continue, this was then welded into place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/WeldPatch1.jpg)
During these stages it became clear that the original patch was too small and there was a gap on the outer edge that needed to be filled. Luckily a simple piece was cut and welded in quite quickly.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/Gap.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/PatchPiece.jpg)
With all that done, I was finally ready for the floor patch. As before, screwed into place, and the welding commenced.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/WeldPan1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/WeldPan2.jpg)
The spot welds proved pretty easy, but the seam was a lot tricker, but I got better as I went.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/WeldPan3.jpg)
A bit of grinding to clean it up, deal with the 5 pin holes (I was expecting more, so was happy there), and it's almost done.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/GrindPan.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day38/PatchIn.jpg)
I've left the front section, as I want to wait until the mid section of the floor is re-attached to the inner rocker. It's currently a couple of mm lower than it should be and if I welded the floor now it might make it more difficult to correct later on.
I'm knackered now and need a week to recover.
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 07, 2014, 01:55:04 pm
Focus is now back to the front floor patch, and doing the final fettling before welding it in. First job was to get it lined up where I wanted it and to hold it in place with the sheet metal screws. I did need a bit of persuasion on the right side, where it meets the inner rocker, so that the panel would be far enough to the right.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day39/PanScrewed.jpg)
With this done, I could see just what a balls up I had made of cutting, with some large gaps in places at the front and rear :-(
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day39/GapFront.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day39/GapRear.jpg)
Both are too wide to easily bridge with weld, yet to small to fit a filler piece of metal. So, although it is annoyingly more work, I set about widening the gaps so that I could add a patch to the patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day39/PatchPatch.jpg)
I did get as far as cutting out the area marked and did weld in the patch metal. It was still a bit narrow, so needed a bit of 'filler' on the outside edge. I forgot to get a picture of this before I finished, but will get one next time, hopefully I will get a bit of time tonight.
I'm hopeful that the rear section will close up a bit with some strategically placed hammering. The step section needs to be tweaked, so I will do that before deciding whether I need to add anything to the rear end of the panel.
I'm also getting low on gas for the welder, I can't believe how quickly it's going and I'm wondering if I've had the flow up a bit too high.
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 08, 2014, 01:01:46 pm
First off, here is the missing picture from the last update, showing the patched patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/PatchPatched.jpg)
There was a bit of overlap on the left edge, so I recut that to fit properly.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/CutSide.jpg)
There was another gaping hole on the other side that needed sorting, so I went about this in the same way as the last. First work out where the gap becomes acceptible and cut away a section up to that point.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/AnotherGap.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/Trim.jpg)
Using a small piece of cardboard, make a template and transfer it to the donor metal.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/PatchPiece.jpg)
Carefully cut that out and prepare both pieces for welding.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/ReadyToWeld.jpg)
Get it welded in and test fit to make sure it's right, then hit it with the grinder to clean it up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/TestFit.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/Ground.jpg)
With that done, and another trial fit, the rear edge doesn't look to bad now, and for most of it I think is withing 'bridging' range.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day40/RearGap.jpg)
Will have to see what the weather is like at the weekend now, fingers crossed it will be dry. On sunday I've got a road trip to take a look at a pair of fenders for sale, which might be in slightly better condition than mine. Both will still need fixing, but I'm looking for an option with less work.
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 11, 2014, 12:42:08 pm
I travelled about an hour to have a look at a used pair of wings, advertised as needing some TLC. Asking price was £50. It's pretty rare to find these in any condition here in the UK, so it was worth having a look.
Sadly they were a bit worse than they looked in the photos and do need a fair bit of work doing on them. I gave each one a thorough check over, and disappointingly passed on both of them for different reasons. They'd been on ebay for 2 weeks with no bids and once the guy realised I wasn't going to buy them either, said if I wanted them I could just take them, as he would only scrap them now. Result! Not sure yet what I will do, either repair these or take the inner braces and use them to rebuild my own. For now I will just store them and make a decision when the time comes.
While I was there, he asked if there was anything else I wanted (he's planning on a full restoration, so is selling of loads of used parts). Most of it was rough or run of the mill stuff which I didn't need, but I did spot a shiny carb. A 4160-1850 is a direct swap for what I've got, and it looked like it had barely been used. We agreed on a price which included an as new Holley air cleaner assembly. Looking at the prices of these, I've picked up a real bargain there.
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 11, 2014, 12:48:52 pm
I'll also be able to sell on my old carb too, so all in all, quids in. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 15, 2014, 01:16:51 pm
Job 1 on Wednesday was to properly assess the fenders I'd picked up and start preparing the extensions for resale. On detailed inspection, neither fender is particularly good, both needing a fair bit of work to make then useable. In reality, I am unlikely to bother and will just cut out the braces and use them to repair my originals.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/Fender1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/Fender2.jpg)
The extensions don't look too bad, and with a bit of care were removed from the fenders intact (more than I can say for my originals). I quickly sanded them both down to bare metal to get a good look at the underlying condition. Neither were perfect, some pitting and one has clearly had some attempts at repairing a rust hole in the past.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/F2Sanded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/F1Sanded.jpg)
As I'm not going to be using either of these, I didn't waste any more time on the, so quickly applied a layer of primer to stop any flash rust. Pictures have been taken and they will be going on ebay soon. Hopefully they will at least get back the money paid out for the carb, and maybe some extra to help pay for some suspension bushes. More on those (much) later in the project.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/Primer.jpg)
With that distraction out of the way, it was back to the front passenger footwell to continue with final preparing for welding. I carefully worked out where to drill the holes for spot welding, the drilled, ground around and then applied the weld-through primer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/Holes.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/WeldPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day41/HolesPainted.jpg)
It was only after I've applied the primer to the pan section that I realised I'd forgotten about preparing the holes along the outer edge, so I'd need to do these next time, before being able to start welding.
Thurs evening was expected to be a washout. There had been a massive storm in the afternoon, and it was still raining as I rode home from work. Amazingly, there was virtually no sign of bad weather when I got home, just a couple of small puddles, so I made hay whilst the sun shined.
First job was to finish the edge preparation on the pan. Thankfully the primer is quick drying, so I layed it on and left it to stand whilst I got the rest of the tools out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day42/EdgePrepped.jpg)
Shortly after, the first spots were added, and the sheet metal screw removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day42/FirstSpots.jpg)
I needed to make a few adjustments on the side of the trans tunnel, but I carefully worked my way backwards and forwards to different sections, closing the gaps.
It's amazing what a difference there is in having the pan just sitting in situ (as it has done for a few weeks) and having even just partially welded in. It feels almost whole again.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day42/Halfway.jpg)
I've got most of the way around from the bulkhead to the rear corner, and some of the back edge done, but then the storm started to make a re-appearance and I had to make a sharp exit, still getting soaked in the process.
Even with the sudden end, I feel like I have taken a huge step forward. I'm looking forward to the next session where I can close of the last of the edges and have an almost complete floor back in on that side. Not sure when that will be yet though, as there's a lot of other stuff planned for the next few weeks.
All this welding is not good. I'm already nearly through the first bottle and will have to get another one soon. At least the refils are cheaper.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day42/LowGas.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 17, 2014, 08:06:16 am
My gas supplier has retired and the next nearest supplier doesn't deliver and doesn't stay open late, so I had to get up early and get there before work on Friday. Given how quickly the 9ltr bottle went, I've upgraded to a 20ltr bottle, which is also filled to a higher pressure, so I am hoping it will last to the end of the project this time.
After work finished I hit the welding again. Firstly I finished off the rear edge of the passenger pan, knocking the edge into alignment as I went.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/PerimeterWelded.jpg)
I didn't go all the way around, but have left the floor to sill joint free at the moment, until I have fully patched the pan.
There are a few spot welds between the pan and the front torgue box/support panel. I wedged the support panel up from underneath and filled in the spots.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/WedgeSupport.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/SupportSpotWelds.jpg)
I started grinding the edges of the pan, but got fed up of that after a while and moved onto something else. I'd got the rear edge ground down.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/GrindRearEdge.jpg)
I'd decided that the inner rocker wasn't going to be coming out anymore, so started welding it to the outer rocker and front body shell. I used clamps either side of each spot weld to pull the panels tight together and worked my way along the top edge. When those were all done they were quickly ground flat.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/InnerOuterClamp1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/InnerOuterClamp2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/InnerGround.jpg)
I did a few of the welds on the underside edges too, but some were obscured by the axle stands, and some will have to wait until the pan is ready to be welded up too.
With the front section of the pan now solid, I was happy to finish the front edges of the rear section, from in front of the rear seat forwards. This was trickier than I'd hoped as some areas of the original pan were a bit thin and I ended up chasing holes around.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPan1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanWelded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanGap.jpg)
As you can see, once the panels had moved about and lined up, there was quite a gap left, too big to bridge with welding alone (and I'm getting quite good at that!)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanGap2.jpg)
I found an off cut that was pretty close in shape, it just needed a little bit of trimming, before being welded in place and filling the void.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanGapDonor.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanGapFiller.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanGapWelded.jpg)
With that done, pin holes found and filled, the seam was ground down.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/RearPanGround.jpg)
I managed to squeeze in another short hour yesterday, and set about sorting the final piece of the passenger floor jigsaw, the edge piece joining the front and rear patches. The remains of the full floor pan fills most of it, but it's not quite long enough due to the modifications I needed to make before.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day43/EdgePiece.jpg)
First job was to find some suitable off cuts with the right sort of shape, measure and cut to size.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day44/SideExtensions.jpg)
These were carefully welded to the ends of the main piece, checked, recut, rewelded and finally ground smooth.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day44/SideWelded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day44/SideGround.jpg)
Finally, it was offered into place and marked for the locations of the extra spot welds that are needed. Ran out of time to do any more, but the next jobs will be to drill those holes and get it coated in primer, ready for welding into place. WIth that done, I'll be ready to join the floor to the rockers and the passenger side will be almost done.
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 22, 2014, 12:48:27 pm
It started Friday night, with a small painting session, applying the epoxy primer to the parts to be welding in the next day, and a couple of other bits to use of the rest of the mix.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/Primer2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/Primer1.jpg)
Once again I underestimated just how far the paint would go and didn't have enough parts prepared and wasted some. I need to factor in this and get more stuff prepared for next time.
I needed to add a couple of extra holes to the final piece of the floor, and then applied the weld-through primer on the areas that would be welded.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/WeldPrimer.jpg)
Whilst that was drying I started on my plan of preparing other parts for primer by digging out the wire guards and hitting them with some rust-converter.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/WireGaurds1.jpg)
The replacement drivers side one appeared to have had some wax treatment in the past and was affecting the reaction. I may need to strip the wax before applying the primer, but I'm lazy, so will probably just try it and see if sticks, then clean it up if it doesn't.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/WireGaurdWax.jpg)
The floor patch went in quite smoothly, although I wasn't able to properly deal with the sides of the floor braces. Rather than spot welds, I just welded along the edges.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/Tacked1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/Welded.jpg)
With the floor now in one piece and adjusted into place, I was able to start welding the lower edge of the outer rocker and the inner side, joining the floor to the rockers.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/RockerLower.jpg)
It turns out my upside down welding requires a lot more practice. I wasn't happy with the way the floor welds were coming out, so I added some welds on the top surface for added strength. These will get covered by seam sealer later on.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/FloorRocker1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/FloorRocker2.jpg)
Underside welds were not pretty...
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/UnderRocker.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day45/Torque.jpg)
By this time, the rain was starting to get beyond light, so I had to pack up for the day.
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 22, 2014, 01:17:45 pm
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Primer1.jpg)
Or so I thought. Whilst I was getting it lined up, I spotted that I had missed a line of holes where it joins the outer wheel house. Thankfully I saw this and was able to sort it before it was welded into the car.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/SpotHoles.jpg)
A quick spray of weldthrough primer around the new holes and on the car and I was ready to go again.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Primer2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Primer3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/FrontWelded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Outerwelded.jpg)
As is becoming customary, I had a gap that was too big to be welded. I really need to cut my patches a bit bigger, and only trim them at the last minute. As before, a donor piece was found and used to plug the hole.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Gap.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Finished1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Finished2.jpg)
For the first time in months, the passenger floor is complete! (Apart from grinding/cleaning and painting) Time for lunch...
After a short break it was back to the grindstone. I fancied a change of scenery, so moved to the rear of the car to attack the rear panel and get it repaired/strengthened before having a go at the rear frame rail.
Start point - a fully assembled tail.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Tail1.jpg)
I'd done some repairs to the trunk floor a few years ago, and these appear to be holding up well.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Trunk1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Trunk3.jpg)
It seems a real shame, but I think I am going to have to cut sections out to enable a proper repair on the rail, but I will do a proper assessment on that when I get to that stage.
Back to the job in hand, first job is get the tail lights out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/LightsOut.jpg)
With cutting and welding on the cards, it's best to get the wiring harness off and well out of the way, rather than trying to work around it. First locate the connector, deep inside the trunk, and then the ground point.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Harness1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Harness2.jpg)
The ground screw was seized, so I cut the wire, and will sort if properly on re-assembly. With a bit of fiddling with the clips, it all came out OK.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Harness3.jpg)
Next is removing the bumper and cover (attached). This involves removing the trim
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Bumper1.jpg)
Two nuts on the inside of the trunk and one screw on the lower end on the outside and these wiggle out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Bumper2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Bumper3.jpg)
Considering these are one of the weak parts on these cars, mine seem to be holding up well and won't need much attention before refitting.
There are 2 screws each side of the bumper cover, but looking at the fastener type, I don't think these were original.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Bumper4.jpg)
Finally is the bumper itself, 8 nuts, 4 each side, 4 in the trunk and 4 underneath.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Bumper5.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Bumper6.jpg)
Of these, 3 of the coach bolts started spinning, so I had to weld them to the bumper in order to get the nuts off. It took over half an hour for these 8 nuts in all, but finally, the bumper was lifted off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/BumperOff.jpg)
Initial inspection was as I expected. A smattering of rust, particularly on the lower edge, and the left side being by far the worst.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/CloseRight.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/CloseLeft.jpg)
Before going any further, I held up the repair panel and marked up where it would extend to. Unfortunately, it wasn't big enough to cover the whole area of damage, so some customer pieces will be needed.
I cut along the marked line and started pulling off the lower section. It wasn't pretty underneath and as I dug further, it showed the drivers side to be a real problem and will require significant rebuilding.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Hacked1.jpg)
This shows just how bad that frame rail is, we are looking at the end of it here.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/FrameRail.jpg)
Another pan full of rust, just from this corner.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/Pile.jpg)
This is most of the outer panel stripped back, but I may need to go further, to give me access to repair/make the inner panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/MoreHackingLeft.jpg)
The passenger side isnt' as bad, but it will need some work on the inner panel too. Thankfully, that panel is fairly simple, so I should be able to sort it without shelling out on a full repair panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/CutRight.jpg)
I now have another dilemma. Whilst pulling the back apart, I could see that the replacement panel I have goes on top of the rear quarters. I was going to leave the quaters until last, waiting until I had the rear frame and drivers floor done, but now it looks like I have to replan my order. I'm not sure which way to go now - Drivers floor and rocker, followed by the quarter, rail then tail? or carry on with the rear panel (all bar the final patch piece, rail then floor and quarter, with the tail finished last.
I will have to ponder that for a while.
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 22, 2014, 01:25:05 pm
http://www.camarocentral.com/1978_1981_Tail_Light_Panel_Rear_Body_p/she-367.htm
http://www.camarocentral.com/1974_1981_Camaro_Rear_Inner_Lower_Tail_Panel_C_p/she-529.htm
Post by: Roadkill on September 22, 2014, 02:04:44 pm
That's some going. Epic amounts of rust though, it's shocking how car manufacturers clearly didn't learn to identify and protect water traps beter.
(http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/down.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 23, 2014, 12:14:49 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
I'm not sure which way to go now - Drivers floor and rocker, followed by the quarter, rail then tail? or carry on with the rear panel (all bar the final patch piece, rail then floor and quarter, with the tail finished last. I've been playing in photoshop with an image of the replacement panel, lined up against the rear of my car, to show me where the back is double skinned, to help me understand how all the joints interact at the back.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day46/BumperOff2.jpg)
As you can see, it doesn't extend up that far, in fact it doesn't go above the trunk floor.
Armed with this info, I am now planning to cut back the outer panel a little more, to give me access to repair most of the lower section of this panel. It will end up being a bit of a patchwork, which is more work and less pretty than swapping the panel, but I don't have the funds for doing it properly.
I won't complete the rear section after that, but will then move onto the rear frame rail.
Not sure how quickly it will get done, as there's loads on the calendar in the coming weeks. I will get an odd 30-60 minutes here and there, so will have to make the best of that time.
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 26, 2014, 12:57:02 pm
I managed to get 2 such sessions in this week, so set about continuing with the tail panel treatment.
I carried on where I left off, digging a bit more rust out of the drivers corner, and starting to cut bits out to good metal, ready to receive a patch. Although I will need to patch all the way across, I don't fancy trying to make a 5-6 foot long patch with various bends in it, so will be making it in sections. Here is the first section cut out, and the first piece that needs to be reproduced.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/DigCut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/1stPiece.jpg)
Armed with the trusty cereal box, a loose template was made up, then transfered to a piece of metal (re-using what's left of the floor pan) and cut to shape.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/Card1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/CardMetal.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/1stCut.jpg)
This was then bent into shape and offered up into the void. Not bad for the first attempt. A bit more shaping and cutting required on the right side.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/LooseFit.jpg)
A little bit more work and it's ready, in-fact, it's such a good fit I don't need to hold it!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/Closer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/Fits.jpg)
I want to apply primer to all of these patches, but will need them all ready for painting at the same time, otherwise I will be wasting the paint having to make it up for such a small job. Because I need this piece in place for reference for the next piece, I've tacked it in for now and will remove when ready to paint it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/Tacked.jpg)
With that done, it's onto the next section. First work out how far to go, not too long, and not too complex in each part. This one has 2 bends in it, so I didn't want to go as far across as the third. Again, cut it out, make a template and start shaping the metal.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/Template2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/PartShaped.jpg)
I deliberately made this piece on the large size, as the double bends in it will affect the outer edges. Once the bends are complete and I'm happy then I can trim the edges down to size.
That was it, a short time disappears very quickly. When packing up, I did run into a minor issue. The tacked in patch hasn't yet got the holes drilled in it for the bumper bolts. Thankfully, the top bolts go in enough to get a nut on then, but this is putting some pressure on the tacked plate.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day47/Bumper.jpg)
Hopefully it will be OK until next time, when I can drill the holes if required.
Post by: Jamieg285 on October 01, 2014, 01:29:32 pm
Most of the lunchtime session was used up trying to shape the patch. Although I though it was simple, the multiple bends were quite difficult, and I may make smaller part patches when doing this section on the other side.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/Shaped.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/TrialFit.jpg)
After much bending, re-bending, trimming and re-bending, I was finally satisfied it was OK and tacked it in one end and did a proper join to the piece already there on the left. I'm now planning to build the patches up into a left and right piece and then join them in the middle.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/TackedConected.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/Joined.jpg)
The light in the evenings is fading fast now, so if I want to get as much done as possible I need extra light. A dig around in the back of the garage and I've found what I need.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/LetThereBeLight.jpg)
The next section reaches to the center section of the panel, and does have some difficult bends in it. I've cut around those bends, so that this bit is fairly flat, and the tricky bends will be added later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/NextTemplate.jpg)
I picked up a neat trick of You-Tube recently. I made the template before cutting the bad metal out, transferred it to the new metal and cut that to shape. This was then held in place and I sprayed weld through primer over the edges. When the patch is taken away it leaves a perfect outline of what needs to be cut, which should eliminate lots of trimming.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/PaintTrick.jpg)
Here it is cut, and then with the untrimmed piece offered into position.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/Cut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/Match.jpg)
I didn't want to bother with the welding equipment in the dark, so moved across to the passenger side. As with the left, I wanted to work from the outside in. With the experience of the other side, I cut more of the outer panel away to reveal all of the inner panel and the end of the frame rail. Although it looks pretty bad, it's the inner panel that's taken the worst of it and the frame rail is (thankfully) pretty solid. A bit of cleaning up and a layer of expoxy is all that will be needed there, before welding in the new inner panel patches here.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day48/PassengerRail.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on October 06, 2014, 01:21:18 pm
I started out continuing with the rear panelling, initially tacking in the last patch, then stripping out the outer section and preparing that patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day49/Patch.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day49/PassFrame.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day49/Plate.jpg)
It was at this point Debbie came out and queried what I was doing - "You'd be better off which one big piece there", "Is that going to be safe like that". That led onto a short discussion on the availability of the panels, and lack of budget. Begrudgingly she accepted that it is probably a good idea to do it with the proper panels, but we'd need to look at how much that would be. It's a start...
So with that unexpected turn, there seemed little point continuing with the tail section, at least until I know if I will be getting the repop panels or not. Attention was now diverted to the next job, namely the drivers rear frame rail. The patch on the rear tail would give me a reference for the rear section, so I was OK to continue with it. I dug the donor rail out of the garage, and spent about 45 minutes comparing it to the one on the car and trying to work out the best way to deal with it. In short, I am not really much further forward yet. I've come up with a couple of options, both needed a fair amount of work in different ways. I've started a different thread on this to canvas opinions - please take a look and let me know what you think - http://www.mkb.cc/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=3&topic=12275
So, stuck on that and still with an hour or so to go, I looked for the next thing to try. I decided it would be a good idea to start peeling back the layers and see just what needed to be done on the drivers outer rocker.
Even without any digging I new there would be some patching required, as there was a rust hole visible straight away. A bit of hacking showed the hole wasn't too big and there was some solid metal below it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day49/DriverRocker1.jpg)
However, as I dug a bit more, things weren't looking so positive. It was clear there was some bad rust, but the holes weren't big enough to see properly. Out with the angle grinder (the power button is now permanently on, so has to be controlled by plugging/un-plugging it) and I cut away some of the lower quarter panel. Can anyone say 'filler'
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day49/Filler.jpg)
With that out of the way, I was able to see some serious problems. I'm really confused as to why the inner support bracket had been cut, especially as I couldn't see any obvious attempts at repairs. The edge facing me is well gone, but at this point I was still hopeful that this could be patched with sheet metal, but the top edge of the rocker looked a bit rough too and needed further investigation.
I cut out a small section of the inner panel to view from the other side, which also gave me access to stab a screwdriver into it. Needless to say, the result wasn't good. The full tail section of the rocker is done for, and cannot be patched.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day49/DriverRocker4.jpg)
The only option is a full replacement. Thankfully, the inner rocker looks to be solid enough to be retained (a miracle considering the damage either side of it), so it won't be as big a job as the passenger side. Give that this will be a mandatory purchase, it may have a bearing on the chances of getting the other panels that were being considered. The one thing that is on my side here, is that I have conceded that there is no chance that the car will be completed this year, which increases the chances of a bit more budget being allowed. I suspect we will have to get past the Christmas spending before I will know, so I'm going to have to think more carefully about what jobs I do in the meantime.
Post by: Jamieg285 on November 20, 2014, 02:04:48 pm
The current budget is definitely at zero, so any new parts will have to wait until the new year, and I'll have to be selected on what I can get. With this in mind, it was back to the DIY job under the rear bumper...
After refreshing my memory of where I'd got to with this, I got back to forming the plate for the right side of the panel. Clamping the lower section patch panel in place allowed me to work out where the bend at the lower end needed to go.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/LowerPatch.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/MatchContour1.jpg)
Little bit of fiddling and I was happy with the fit. I'm not worried about an exact fit now, and am expecting to do some massaging later on when I weld the inner and outer panels together.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/MatchContour2.jpg)
With that done, the patch was tacked into place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/TackWeld.jpg)
I'd missed a trick here in not including the first bend on that piece of metal, and despite my best efforts I was not able to do the close double bends in the next piece. Instead I ended up making a small slither to form the first bend.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/SmallFiller.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/FillerTacked.jpg)
Moving inboard, the next bend took a bit of time to get right, but I got close enough eventually. This took most of the available time, so all I could do was spray around the patch, ready for cutting next time out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/NextPatchMarked.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day50/CuttingLine.jpg)
Looking at that outline, I may modify the left side a bit more, as that cut looks a bit tricky!
Post by: Jamieg285 on December 04, 2014, 02:09:38 pm
I continued with the inner tail panel section, looking to complete the passenger side. The next section was marked at the end of the last session, so it's simply a case of cutting it out and then tacking the next be in place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Cut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Tacked1.jpg)
Then to the final piece on this side, which was a nice flat section and really easy compared to the previous ones.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Template1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Welded1.jpg)
That's both sides done, although there is still some tweaking to do with the horizontal bends to get the inner and outer to meet, and some trimming to size to be done.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Done.jpg)
The final bit of fabrication, for now, was the middle piece that joins the two sides. Being curved I was expecting this to be tricky, but found it to be quite simple.
First find a suitable sized off-cut and bend it around a hammer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Shaped.jpg)
Then it was held in place and marked for trimming.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Marked.jpg)
And finally offered into place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day51/Fit.jpg)
I've not welded this piece in yet, I want to wait until the sides have been removed, fully prep'ed and welding in properly before I do this bit.
Not sure if I'm going to take this much further now, I may divert to starting on the drivers outer rocker. I need to carefully work out the remaining steps for this bit and plan when they will be done.
Post by: Jamieg285 on January 08, 2015, 01:37:41 pm
After more than a month off (mostly with good excuses) I got a spare hour to start tinkering again. Rather than continue with where I was, I have decided to switch my focus, and work on things that will help me to regain some storage space, as I'm running out of room to move in the garage.
Target #1 is the frame. If I can get the frames swapped over, the old one can be sold on and create a small space in the garage (may even boost the budget too, fingers crossed.
The front clip is mostly separated already, but the there are a few things still attached that need to be removed. The main obstacle is the engine and trans which will have to be pulled out before I move the frame, the rest I am hoping can stay on for now and get transferred over bit by bit. I've not really planned it that well yet, but I will get a better idea as I get stuck in.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/Frame1.jpg)
Due to the limited space on the drive and the lack of wheels to roll the car back, I can't do what I have done previously and just lift the engine over the nose and roll backwards. Being as it will be swapped over anyway, I'm going to remove the core support, making engine removal a piece of cake (I hope).
Onto actual progress for the day, which doesn't amount to much...
First step was to remove the radiator. This was drained and hoses/lines removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/RemoveHoses.jpg)
Had a few problems with the transmission cooler lines, as both nuts were stuck to the sleeves. I managed to free the top one OK, but the lower one just twisted the sleeve.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/LowerTransLine.jpg)
Thankfully I spotted it and stopped turning it before it split. In the end I had to resort to spinning the radiator around the line, rather than turning the nut. Bit of a faff, but it worked.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/RadOut.jpg)
With the radiator out of the way, it revealed another area that will need some attention. Hey-ho.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/MoreHoles.jpg)
The rest of the time was spent cleaning up the mess left from draining the radiator and packing up. I did take a few pics to help with alignment/re-assembly.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/Align1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/Align2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/Mounts1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day52/Mounts2.jpg)
Post by: Roadkill on January 08, 2015, 03:33:01 pm
Quoting: Jamieg285
You know that things are moving too slowly when you have to check your own progress thread to remind you where you got to last time! Story of my life !!! (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/rofls.gif)
That said, progress is progress, however little. (http://www.mkb.cc/forum/smileys/up.gif)
Post by: Jamieg285 on January 26, 2015, 03:24:39 pm
Whilst having some tyres on the family car fixed, I got the guy to fit a tyre to one of the C5 rims. Not sure why it's so exciting, as it's only one of the four and the tyre won't be used on the road, it's only for measuring and checking clearances, but it feels kinda good to see it there.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day53/C5-1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day53/C5-2.jpg)
Not the best pics for visualising the final look, but the best I can do right now!
Post by: Roadkill on January 26, 2015, 05:37:19 pm
Post by: Jamieg285 on February 10, 2015, 03:19:30 pm
Why the urgency? A quick call to the importing company (STS imports) tells me that the next container is due to be packed in the next 2 weeks, so I need to get everything ordered and shipped to them sharpish, or it will be months before I see any of it. The problem now is that I've not worried about finallising the details of what I needed as I thought I had loads of time in which to do it.
So, first was confirming the size if the wheel adapters. General wisdom seems to be a 2" spacer at the front, and 2.5" at the rear, but measure first to make sure. Being as I have no suspension fitted, measuring clearances exactly isn't going to be possible, so I'll have to make do with comparing the wheels.
Side by side, you can see that the new tyre is slightly shorter than the old ones, which may or may not help with clearance.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/NewVsOld.jpg)
Next I check the backspacing, using the edge of the tyre as the reference rather than the wheel rim. I did this because the old tyre had much more sidewall bulge, and doing it this way measures to the outermost contact point.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/OldBS.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/NewBs.jpg)
Based on this, it looks like the new wheel/tire combo is 2 1/8" offset. I figure the 2.5" spacer at the rear will be fine, but I am now concerned by the front. Will 2" be enough? With it being just 1/8", I may be able to get away with a thin spacer if needed.
With the thickness of the adapters sorted(?), next task was to work out what studs I'd need. The rear drum is still on stock studs, and I've been advised to up the thickness of them to cope with the added stress of the adapter. I'm going to go with 12mm, to match the studs that will come in the adapters. I've figured that the stud needs to be at least as long as the adapter, plus the thickness of the rotor. So, off with the rear wheel and drum, and measure the thickness of the axle flange.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/RearRotorThickness.jpg)
As I write this, I have realised that I should have also measured the thickness of the brake drum. However, having subsequently looked for the parts, it's not overly relevant, as I will have to get 3.25" studs, and will be cutting them down to fit.
Being thicker studs, I also needed to see if I could find any that would fit the existing holes, or if I would have to drill the holes larger to fit the studs. The stock studs are about 0.472", but the new ones will be 0.505", so I'll need to get a 0.5" drill bit sometime.
That's the rear sorted, but I also need to check the fronts. I will be fitting a new Baer front kit, and had no idea what studs it had fitted as standard. Now I know they're in one of thses boxes, and my money is on it being the one at the bottom:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/FrontRotorWhere.jpg)
Yep, I was right. Bottom box, but I did get them out reasonably quickly, although not without casualty:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/Oops.jpg)
I'm hoping this will be repairable, otherwise I've got to re-do all the holes in a fresh dash bezel.
Anyway, back to the task in hand, the front studs.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/FrontRotor.jpg)
It was clear early on that the existing stud would be too short, but I also needed to extract one to be able to measure the hole diameter. I could assume that it would be a stock size, but I didn't want to get it wrong as I don't fancy having to drill these holes out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/TooShort.jpg)
Knowing that these studs can be in pretty tight, I went straight for the ball joint press. Even then, I still had to stand and use my full body weight (and I'm not a lightweight) to get any movement.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day54/Pressure.jpg)
Eventually it popped out, and I was able to confirm the full length and knurl thickness and confirm that I could use the same set of studs as will be used at the rear.
I then spent a bit of time rooting around in the garage, hoping to find a few things that I could sell quickly to raise a bit more cash. I was planning to go for some del-lum bushes, but a recent ebay find has put that on hold. I won't go into it now, as it's still in auction and I don't want to jinx it, but fingers are tightly crossed.
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 03, 2015, 01:46:28 pm
First off is my latest acquisition. Luck was with me and I go this at the opening price:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/NewCore.jpg)
Yes, a fully refurbished and powder coated 1979 Core Support! And only 30 mins away from home! This could save me weeks of work.
I've also been busy ordering stuff to come over from the US in a container. Back-order delays meant I won't get the quarter panel I need (I will get this on the next shipment later in the year instead), but I have got the drivers outer rocker, chunky wheel adapters, along with the required longer studs and new lug nuts, del-alum bushes for the front suspension and new tie rods.
With all these items needing more storage space in the garage, the focus has to be on making space. With this in mind, I've gone full steam ahead into removing the old sub-frame alowing me to get the new one out and under the car. With a lot of the new parts that are going to go on, I've decided to try and sell the frame complete with suspension/steering and brakes.
First job was to start dismantling the frame, removing anything I want to keep. Core Support and front cross member out first.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/CoreSupportOut.jpg)
With some battling (trying to keep the circuit intact) I got the full steering assembly out too.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/SteeringOut.jpg)
Try as I might, I couldn't separate the linkage from the pitman arm, which I needed to keep. Thank fully overnight I receieved some words of wisdom and used a different technique (brains not brawn) and it popped off easily.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/PitmanOff.jpg)
Last minute check on engine/frame to body connections, cut 1 wire and disconnect the fuel line at the pump and I was ready to lift the engine. To give myself as much room to move as possible, within the limited space available, I pulled the whole thing forward.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/FrameForward1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/FrameForward2.jpg)
I should have done it earlier, but the brake lines and calipers were still attached and being a bit of a pain, so I quickly pulled these off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/BrakeLines.jpg)
With that done, it was bolts out and engine up!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/EngineUp.jpg)
Then carefully slide the frame out, lift it up and move to the rear of the car where there is a bit more working room.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/FrameLoose.jpg)
The engine was carefully tucked back under the car, and then attention moved onto preparing the frame for sale.
First thing was to remove the engine mounts, as I'll be needing those to refit to the new frame. A couple of quick reference shots to make sure I use the right mounting holes and these were removed - a lot easier with the lower A-arms out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/Mount1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/Mount2.jpg)
The trans cross-member was also removed, and these will all be cleaned and painted before being re-fitted.
Not sure whether to keep hold of the suspension shims. I know I have some more, but cannot find them at the moment. Just in case, I measure all four packs, so I have something to aim for later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day55/Shims.jpg)
I gave it a quick rub down with a wire brush, then started to re-fit the old suspension which I won't be needing any more. It all went together really easily. The hardest part was moving afterwards, as it must have more than doubled in weight. Thankfully I was able to slide it under the rear of the car and just had enough time left to tidy up for the day.
Next jobs will be to extract the new frame from the bottom of the pile in the garage and get it under the car for a test fit. Cross member and engine mounts will need cleaning and painting before it can go together properly, but a successful trial fit will mean it's safe to get rid of the old frame.
Post by: Roadkill on March 03, 2015, 01:58:25 pm
Try as I might, I couldn't separate the linkage from the pitman arm, which I needed to keep. Thank fully overnight I receieved some words of wisdom and used a different technique (brains not brawn) and it popped off easily.
I had the same issue, years back and never resolved it so I'd be intrigued to know the "trick".
It's cool seeing the front frame away from the car . . . Would be so much easier if I could've done that with the third gen !!!
Post by: FUBAR on March 03, 2015, 06:03:09 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/ryanbudd/Frame%20Building%2005_zpskgk2r1bv.jpg)
(In the background... not the frame near the front :P)
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 04, 2015, 12:38:57 pm
I had the same issue, years back and never resolved it so I'd be intrigued to know the "trick".
Surprisingly simple. Instead of concentrating your efforts trying to push/pull the joint out of the hole, you work at deforming the hole so that the joint and hole no longer match. In this example you hit the end of the pitman arm (90* to the joint), as if you wanted to oval the hole. A few sharps hits (less effort that I was using to try and force the joint out) and it simply popped loose. I've also heard that using 2 hammers either side (instead of the end) of the arm will do a similar job.
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 04, 2015, 12:40:55 pm
Camaro looks a bit different from this chilly morning in Feb 2006:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/ryanbudd/Frame%20Building%2005_zpskgk2r1bv.jpg)
(In the background... not the frame near the front :P)
It could quite easily be confused at the moment ???
Post by: Roadkill on March 05, 2015, 09:28:53 am
Surprisingly simple. Instead of concentrating your efforts trying to push/pull the joint out of the hole, you work at deforming the hole so that the joint and hole no longer match. In this example you hit the end of the pitman arm (90* to the joint), as if you wanted to oval the hole. A few sharps hits (less effort that I was using to try and force the joint out) and it simply popped loose. I've also heard that using 2 hammers either side (instead of the end) of the arm will do a similar job.
Cool, will bare that in mind next time . . . I'm sure there'll be a next time . . . :)
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 13, 2015, 01:50:23 pm
I took the time to clean up and apply some paint to the transmission cross member and engine mounts, so that I could re-use them on the new frame. (turns out I didn't need to worry about doing this now, but hey-ho a job done is a job done)
Before selling my old frame, I wanted to be 100% certain that the replacement would fit without issue. So, it was dragged out of the garage and offered up to the car. There were some fun and games working out how the new solid body bushes fitted (no instructions!), and even more fun trying to get the end of the frame squeezed into the ends of the sub-frame connectors and then still be able to shift the frame into position. To try and make it easier, the front end of the frame was being lifted by the engine crane, which gave me plenty of swing and movement. After about half hour of shifting and shoving, it finally all lined up and bolts were test fitted.
All that work, only to take it out again! As there are still floor and rocker fixes to do on the drivers side, I didn't want to have the frame attached, and I also needed somewhere to put the engine. With limited space the engine was lifted and dropped onto the frame, then the whole lot was picked up again and tucked back under the car.
To help get more space in the garage, the new core support was loosely fitted to.
I've started to repair the front piece that goes between the frame horns for painting, knocking off the loose rust and old paint. Not planning to fit it yet, as I want the frame as bare/light as possible until it's properly bolted back on the car.
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 19, 2015, 12:57:34 pm
With the sun shining and a feeling of a bit of warmth in the air, I decide to start working on the body work again. Although I have been doing some bits and pieces, none of them feel particularly important - although all progres is good progress.
The replacement drivers outer rocker panel is now on the boat to the UK and all being well will be in my hands within a month, so I made the decision to start working on the removal of the old one. Now I know what's involved, I'm going in with a much less surgical approach, and going more for speed.
I started of with stripping the paint off the lower edge to reveal the spot welds. Rather than using a small almost pen sized wire brush in a drill, I've opted for a more brutal looking affair in the angle grinder, and it made a much better and quicker job. I wish I'd started using it before now.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day56/LowerEdge.jpg)
Knowing that I can't get the spot weld cutter into those spots, my next step was to start cutting out the bulk of the panel, thus removing the restriction. I'll need to brace across the door opening again, but with this in place I wouldn't be able to make the cuts across the top, so I have made the initial cuts that need doing before the brace is put in.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day56/Cut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day56/Cut2.jpg)
I ran out of time to finish these, and will probably need to finish a couple of them off with the dremel. I finshed off the day by placing the brace in, and making the necessary mods to it so that it fits the opposite side of the car.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day56/Brace.jpg)
I'll do the final top cuts and weld the brace in next time, before cutting the bulk of the rocker out.
I must stop looking on ebay. Even though my budget is overstretched, and space is limited, I can't seem to avoid finding bargains. It's hard to pass on a £35 fuel tank that's only a few years old. The filler neck is the wrong length, so I'll have to make some modifications, but apart from that it's all good. Plus it had about £20 worth of fuel in it, which I can put to use in my bike.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day56/Tank.jpg)
Post by: Rob on March 21, 2015, 06:20:44 pm
I must stop looking on ebay. Even though my budget is overstretched, and space is limited, I can't seem to avoid finding bargains. It's hard to pass on a £35 fuel tank that's only a few years old. The filler neck is the wrong length, so I'll have to make some modifications, but apart from that it's all good. Plus it had about £20 worth of fuel in it, which I can put to use in my bike.
Had a little punt on that myself. Didn't consider you'd be on it as well...LOL
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 14, 2015, 01:43:29 pm
Work continues on removing the drivers rocker. Last time out I finished the cuts that were started last time and started drilling out the spot welds along the top edge.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day57/CenterCut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day57/SpotWelds1.jpg)
It was a lot easier doing it from the outside, rather then crouching inside the cabin. I also spotted that I could use a normal drill and go straight through, again easier than using the spot weld cutter, which will have to be used on some of the spots later.
Today I did a bit more. I made sure that I didn't forget about the brake/vapour lines running down the inside edge of the rocker.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day57/BrakeLine1.jpg)
I removed enough brackets to move it away from the work area, although I don't think I'll be able to remove it completely, as it being captured by the SFC.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day57/BrakeLine2.jpg)
I forgot to take some pictures (will get them next time), but I found a small area in the floor, around the drain plug and floor/toe board transition area that will need to be patched. Didn't look too big or too difficult.
With time running short, I made a start on the rear door section, finding and drilling out the spot welds. The rearmost one on the vertical side was rusting out, so I may need to take a closer look at this before I well the new panel in.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day57/SpotWelds2.jpg)
Good news is the first of the shippments from the US has arrived in the UK and is ready for collection. The second is packed and due to sail anytime soon, so I'm holding off collecting until both lots are available.
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 16, 2015, 01:31:56 pm
I started by getting more of the rear end of the rocker out, succeeding in getting most of it off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day58/RearCut.jpg)
What's left there is a bit more fiddly, and will take a bit more care in making sure I leave what I can of the neighbouring panels. A job for a day with more time.
Whilst the disc cutter was out, I also trimmed back some more of the front end back. Again the front is going to be a bit more tricky, especially if I am going to keep the door on (not sure if it's possible yet, but I'm going to give it a try.
Next up was a quick slice into the remains of the top strip and pulling it off, which just a couple of spots needing encouragement with the chisel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day58/TopStrip.jpg)
Finally, just before packing up, I bent up what remains on the lower edge, so that I will be able to get the spot weld drills in next time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day58/Bash1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day58/Bash2.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 22, 2015, 03:05:47 pm
First off, here is one of the missing pictures from last week, showing the recently uncovered area on the drivers floor that will need patching. I will probably loose the plug and just put in a flat panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Floor.jpg)
Onto the actual work... despite saying I did't want to take the door off, we had friends over for the weekend and, with the help of a few beers, I managed to get an agreement to help lift if off and refit afterwards.
Had similar problems with the door hinge bolts as the other side. One snapped, and there was one that was in at a strange angle and came out stripped. Attempting to get another bolt in the same hole looked like it would do the same thing again, so for now there is just one bolt on the lower hinge - same as the other side!
Thankfully, there were less spot welds in the top section that the passenger side, so it was pretty quick to drill out all of the welds that would be hampered by the door, and then we could get back to relaxing and enjoying the weekend.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Front1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Front2.jpg)
Yesterday I continued getting that front piece out, removing the inner spot welds. I did find another small area that will need patching in the panel behind the kick panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Front3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/FrontInner.jpg)
Attention then moved to the lower edge, which meant out with the trusty spot weld cutter, as I didn't want to drill right through the inner rocker this time.
I started near the back where access was easiest, cut two holes out, then split it so that I could peel the metal away as I worked in either direction.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Lower1.jpg)
Rear section cut away pretty quickly.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Lower2.jpg)
Front section took a bit longer, but was making good progress.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Lower3.jpg)
Today was all about continuing along the lower edge.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/Lower4.jpg)
I couldn't get to the front to spots on the lower edge, so worked on the 3 on the underside.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day59/FrontLower.jpg)
Almost there. Most of what is left is more tricky locations to get into with the drill. Hopefully I'll get them all out in the next session, but I expect it may take longer.
Good news is that the next container is now sailing and is due here in about 3 weeks. Bad news is I've already come up with a few more things I need, so will have to have another shipment later in the year.
Post by: Roadkill on April 22, 2015, 03:24:09 pm
Impressive progress. I think I would've lost the plot by now, if it were me.
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 23, 2015, 11:15:52 am
You seem to be gaining quite a stockpile of steel under the car !
Yes, it's starting to look a bit untidy now, and it's limiting access underneath. I need to find out if the recyclers will take it and how much for. No point lugging it 15 miles for next to nothing.
Post by: Roadkill on April 23, 2015, 02:50:31 pm
I gave up taking stuff to the scrappy, just didn't cover my time or the fuel.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 05, 2015, 12:36:02 pm
Whilst digging out a bit more of the rust that was found on the inner panel, I found a patch on the outer side that needs attention too.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day60/FrontDamageInner.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day60/FrontDamage.jpg)
Time was short, so I opted to start on the outer section first, grinding it back and finding the limits of the rust. Then a donor piece of metal was found and bent to match the curve.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day60/RoughPatch.jpg)
This was then trimmed to size, the area prepped and then welded in.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day60/PatchCut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day60/PatchReady.jpg)
I did get it fully welded in, but my welding touch has dropped off over the winter and it looks awful. With the door in place I can't get the grinder into it yet, so this will have to wait till a lot later in the project.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 05, 2015, 12:56:15 pm
Yet again, focus changed and I set out with the intention of completing the drivers rear frame rail in the available time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/RearView.jpg)
Before cutting anything out, I wanted to make sure I was set for positioning the replacement. I came up with the idea of using a piece of scrap as a height guide, fixing it to a re-fitted shackle bolt and bushing.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/HieghtMarked.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/HeightCut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/HeightGuide.jpg)
Then I measured to the side to get the alignment in that plane.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/MeasureSide.jpg)
The last few spot welds were removed, although suprisingly, there was only one to the top section of the frame.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/RearSpots.jpg)
I worked out where I wanted to cut. Far enough past the rust, but not too far, then drilled some guide holes through the trunk floor so I'd know where to cut from the top side.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/GuideHoles1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/GuideHoles2.jpg)
Then it was in with the cutter. Access was difficult with the angle grinder, so it was partially done with that, with the rest finished off with the Dremel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Cut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Cut2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Cut3.jpg)
All done and a bit of hammering and it fell out. Well almost. There was one more spot weld between the frame end and the cross rail. A quick slice with the cutter and it was properly out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/MissedOne.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Out1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Out2.jpg)
Yes - I think this did need replacing!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Out3.jpg)
Whilst preparing the end in the car, I came to the conclusion that I wanted to extend the cut a bit further, getting it away from the oval hole in the base. A few chops later and another chunk was out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/ExtraCut.jpg)
With the overall length now sorted, I was able to remove the donor section from the replacement rail. I made sure I was an inch too long, so that I had plenty of room to trim it down to fit. The last thing I wanted as to cut too short!.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/NewRail.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/NewVsOld.jpg)
Then, bit by bit, I carefully removed gradually smaller and smaller chunks and slices until the two ends were a good fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Shavings.jpg)
The end of the rails were prepped, height gauge put in place and clamped together and out came the welder.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Weld1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Weld2.jpg)
It's fair to say, it wasn't pretty and I wasn't overly happy with it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Weld3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day61/Weld4.jpg)
Next job will be to grind it back and work out which bits need going over again.
It was now late on Saturday (still daylight :-) ) and I was really happy with the progress. I had not imaginged that I would get so far through this in one day.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 05, 2015, 01:07:20 pm
As well as not being happy with the standard of welding, it appears that something had shifted between me setting it up and welding it in and it was in crooked.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Out.jpg)
To make it easier, I cut some more of the trunk pan away, giving much better access to the inner side, both for the new cut (which was also done better this time) and the welding.
This time, more care was taken getting everything setup and held in place and off I went again.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Set1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Set2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Weld1.jpg)
This time the it went in properly and the welding was far, far better.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Better.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Weld2.jpg)
Welds were then ground flush, with some filling added where needed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Cleaned.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Cleaned2.jpg)
Unfortauntely, now too late to do properly with the original rail in one piece, I found a small section right next to where I had welded that needed sorting. For now I have cut that bit out and started preparing a patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day62/Extra.jpg)
So, overall, I didn't get much further on the Monday than I had got on Saturday, but at least this time it was done properly. Still some way to go though. I want to try and add some internal support, but not sure how yet as access is very tight in there. Some of it will have to wait until the quarter panel is out, even then I'm not sure it will be enough. Time will tell!
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 28, 2015, 12:12:56 pm
First up, the latest purchases have now been collected and are safely stored in my garage. These include: Drivers Outer Rocker, Passenger Quarter Skin, del-alum bushes for the front suspension arms, AC Delco Pro ball joints and steering linkages, chunky wheel adapters, thicker wheel studs, locking wheel nuts, rag joint, various gaskets and seals for the TH-350, new shims for the a-arms and an anti-squeak kit for the fuel tank. Not a bad haul for an limited budget!
Somewhat disappointingly, the wheel adapters are wrong. They were supposed to be hub and wheel centric (lip on the outer face), but are not, despite the seller telling me they were and matched the picture they were using to sell them.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day63/Adapters.jpg)
The bad news is that due to the length of time it has taken for them to get to me and be checked, they are outside of the eBay guarantee period. Better news is that I am still covered by Paypal who refunded the full amount, and bearing in mind the costs of shipping back to the US have said I don't have to do so. This means I now have a set that I can use for mocking up and checking the widths, and can sell them on to help pay for the extra costs of the correct replacements. Happy days.
The next disappointment was the wheel studs. I should have done better research before buying extra long ones, as it turns out I don't need them that long as the adapters are designed to work with stock length studs. Rather than cut the down I will try and sell these on and get some new shorter ones. I should only need to do this for the rear, as I am fairly sure the current ones on the Baer kit are suitable and won't need changing.
I'd originally planned the next job to be fitting the newly acquired outer rocker, but on closer inspection and consideration, I'd decided to concentrate on the inner rocker and rear floor repairs first, as it will give me better access to the inner rocker and torque box with the outer rocker not there. I've bought a length of box section that I will weld into the outer rocker location as a brace whilst doing all of this.
The outer rocker would need epoxy primering before fitting and I wanted to avoid previous mistakes of mixing too much paint for the job and wasting some of it. With this in mind I've patched up a couple of areas in the trunk floor(both where the exhaust hanger brackets are) and been under the rear wire brushing some of the underside of the trunk floor and seatback panels. A big enough area that will use up the remaining paint.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day63/TrunkPatch1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day63/TrunkPatch2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day63/TrunkPatch3.jpg)
With that all said and done, having picked up the items there has been yet another change of plan. Anyone who's had a quarter skin delivered will know just how big the box it comes is. It's huge and taking up far too much space in the garage. It's currently balance on top of the engine crane and hood, and I have to duck under it when I want to get to the back half of the garage. I could take the panel out, but I would still have pretty much the same issue, but with the downside of little to no protection for the panel.
So, current sub-project is the passenger quarter repairs - one of the jobs that is the most daunting. I've done as much research on it as possible, and worked out where I want to make my cuts - above the wheel arch, but below the body line. Yesterday I took the plunge and made a proper start on it, making the initial horizontal and vertical cuts.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day63/QuarterCut.jpg)
I wanted the main panel cut before I started trying to separate the lower edges from the outer wheel house and trunk drop offs, so that I can bend and wiggle without affecting the panels that will stay on the car.
And that's as far as I got. A delivery of my new motorbike took my attention for the rest of the available time.
Post by: art b on May 28, 2015, 12:54:31 pm
A delivery of my new motorbike took my attention for the rest of the available time.
new thread and pics req ... :ORIG-pics:
Post by: Roadkill on May 28, 2015, 04:19:44 pm
And yes, new thread for the bike, please. :tongue:
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 29, 2015, 11:19:00 am
It's a bit naughty of the wheel-spacer seller to claim they're hub-centric . . . . Proper hub-centric wheel spacers are rare and f*cking expensive (and I've only seen them available for the 4th gens and over - Eibach do them I think).
Yes, but overall I'm up in more ways than one, so not fussed about it now. I can use them to physically check the widths are right, rather than going on recommendations/guess work. I can then adjust the width if necesssary when I re-order. Got a full refund, so I'm only down a little bit on the customs costs, which I should make back when I sell them on.
I've got a couple of off-the-shelf options lined up in the current sizes, but if they are different, I may have to go the custom size route - at more than double the price. At least they will be spot on though.
new thread and pics req
And yes, new thread for the bike, please.
Yes, yes. It's coming...
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 15, 2015, 12:43:39 pm
Not a lot of progress last week, as only a couple of hours were available (motor bikes still taking up a lot of spare time). I continued stripping off the passenger quarter panel. I was working carefully around the outer wheel house lip, with the intention of retaining as much of the original panel as possible. This involved drilling out the spot welds and then cutting strips of the panel every 2-3 holes.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day64/Qtr1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day64/Qtr2.jpg)
Outer wheelhouse lip isn't as bad as I was expecting, but will need some patching.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day64/OuterLip.jpg)
Moving further round, onto the trunk drop off, things didn't go so well. The front edge didn't take much encouragement to seperate at all, and revealed the trunk drop off was in a pretty poor state. This wasn't at all visible until the outer panel was removed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day64/Qtr3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day64/TrunkDrop.jpg)
Looking at the state of this, I'm going to have to replace the panel. Knowing that the outer side in this area on the drivers side looks worse, I know without having to look further that I will need that side too.
During the week plans changed once again. I'll not go into detail yet, as I don't want to jinx it, but I am now trying to sell the quarter panels to raise urgent funds. This means that for now, focus moves again, this time back to the drivers rocker panels and torque box area.
With the door gap bracing checked, I figured it would be OK to start pulling out some more metal. I wanted to get the end of the inner rocker out and patch prepared whilst there was still some of the stucture inside it to help with alignment. I've marked where I want to cut and started drilling out the spot welds within that area, then cut around it. It looks like someones had a go at it with a shotgun!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day65/Inner1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day65/Inner2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day65/Inner3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day65/Inner4.jpg)
A suitable patch was cut and shaped, and will be epoxy primered before fitting.
I then started on the floor pan and torque box, concentrating on areas that won't affect the outer edge/fitting of the inner rocker. Now I know how it all hangs together I'm not worried about getting it out in one piece, so just drilled and cut stategically to get things out as quickly as possible.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day65/Floor1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day65/Floor2.jpg)
Having got this far, it looks like the brake line is going to be a problem, as I can't (currently) move it any more as it's trapped between the floor SFCs. I'll have another look later, but I am close to just cutting it out and putting a new one in when the time comes.
Post by: Rob on June 16, 2015, 07:03:01 pm
Moving further round, onto the trunk drop off, things didn't go so well. The front edge didn't take much encouragement to seperate at all, and revealed the trunk drop off was in a pretty poor state. This wasn't at all visible until the outer panel was removed.
Currently in the process of getting rid of my Trunk drop offs and just continuing the trunk corners right to the outer panel. Seems to be the norm to do this to get rid of the water trap.
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 17, 2015, 11:04:12 am
Currently in the process of getting rid of my Trunk drop offs and just continuing the trunk corners right to the outer panel. Seems to be the norm to do this to get rid of the water trap.
Sounds interesting. Any pics and/or links to more info?
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2015, 07:25:46 pm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/62906096@N02/18745706589/in/dateposted-public/
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 19, 2015, 12:08:43 pm
I thought the water that ended up there came from the rear window leaking/spray from the rear wheels.
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 13, 2015, 01:04:22 pm
First up, I managed to find a buyer for the wheel adapters, so thay have gone. I have also sold both quarter skins. A strange decision as I have only just got one of them in from the US and haven't fixed the quarters on the car yet. I was able to make a small profit on them though, and have found something better. I don't have the funds/luck to find original NOS full quarters, or the new reproduction ones that people are talking about, but I did find a company that sells a skin that is larger than the common ones, and extends up to the window and trunk edge, rather than stopping part way up. A pair of these, as well as a new tail panel and trunk drop offs is on it's way, along with a few brake bits.
On the car itself, I've been continuing with the driver torque box. Bit by bit I've cut out the old one.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/MoreFloor.jpg)
Eventually it was out:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/FloorOut.jpg)
So far, I've just loosely cleaned up the inside of the rail, chipping of any loose rust. The tip of the rail is in pretty poor shape, but this is where the SFC is, and there is plenty of overlap, so I'm not too concerned.
A quick trial fit of the new box
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/TorqueIn.jpg)
Next I started preparing the box for fitting, drilling spot welds. There was also a spot where the stamped hole for the mounting clip was completely wrong, and needed extending.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/Box1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/Box2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/Box3.jpg)
Whilst the area is open, I've started preparing the floor patches. There's a bit of section in the rear panel that goes up to the trunk that needs fixing. I was initially looking at doing this all from a new piece of metal, but there was a few inches of this section attached to the donor floor section, so I am going to use that for part of it and fill in the middle part.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/Rear1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/Rear2.jpg)
I sliced the donor floor patch a bit wider than the gap and adujsted to get it fitting loosely in the right place. I needed this to help get the alignment of all of the patches correct, as getting one in wrong would affect the fit of the rest.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day66/PanLoose.jpg)
Still quite a bit of fettling to do here, but it does feel like I am making good progress again.
In the coming sessions, I need to open up the panel above the frame rail so that I can get in an clean/treat it, along with treating the aleady exposed section, then apply some epoxy primer to that and the new panels. I want to finish preparing the patches first though, so I can do all the primering at once.
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 23, 2015, 12:45:03 pm
I had just over an hour to spare yesterday, and I decided to do something constructive and fitted the patch to the inner rocker.
After cleaning up all the edges, it was clamped into place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day67/InnerClamped.jpg)
Had a few wire feed problems on the welder, so it wasn't pretty, but then this will be hidden by the outer panel anyway. Thankfully I was able to sort the feed issue and it did start welding nicely again.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day67/InnerWelded.jpg)
Finally, for today at least, I ground back the inner face, as this is where the floor patch will attach.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day67/InnerGround.jpg)
A few days ago I had a few spare minutes, so applied some rust treatment to the inner frame rail. Looking much better now and ready for a coating of epoxy primer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day67/RailTreated.jpg)
Got plenty of things close to needing epoxy primer now, so I'll be digging the paint brushes out next week.
Post by: Roadkill on July 23, 2015, 03:14:43 pm
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 23, 2015, 03:18:35 pm
Post by: Roadkill on July 23, 2015, 03:32:34 pm
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 24, 2015, 11:29:53 am
Planning to do a much better job this time.
Post by: Roadkill on July 24, 2015, 04:50:43 pm
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 30, 2015, 10:29:21 am
I'd spotted a 'doh' moment a while ago, noticing that the new torque boxes didn't have the parking brake cable brackets on them. Thankfully, although I have recently got rid of a pile of scrap, I did retain the old torque boxes, so have the originals still available to recycle. Not looking too pretty, but they will have to do.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/CableBracket1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/CableBracket2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/CableBracket4.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/CableBracket5.jpg)
For small brackets, they put up a pretty good fight, but they did come off relatively straight in the end.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/CableBracket3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/CableBracket6.jpg)
To counter the realisation of the mistake, a chance glance at the donor frame rail provided a positive find. Where I had previously started making a small patch to fit at the behind the rear seat where it joins the inner quarter, I realised that the old rail had this section of panel still attached and in decent condition. It's a perfect match to the part of the panel that was attached to the rear floor pan patch. This will save me a lot of work, as it proved really tricky to get the complex bends right when I did the other side. Here are the two parts.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/FloorPatch2.jpg)
I wanted to start applyint some primer and get stuff put in place, so I spent the next part of the day preparing the frame rail, torque box and inner rocker ready for priming, cleaning and scuffing as necessary. I also drilled a number of holes in the inner rocker where I will weld in the rocker and floor pans. Primer was then applied, with the small amount of the mix that was left going onto the underside/back seat panels (will have to get a pic of that later, as I missed it)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/RailPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/BoxPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/InnerPrimer1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/InnerPrimer2.jpg)
Before the primer was applied to the inner rocker, part of the prep included trial fitting the outer rocker. This one is an AMD piece, with noticeable differences to the one used the other side (brand unknown) It seemed to be a better fit, and only needed a minor tweek at the front edge, where the triangle piece was fouling on the lower body. Holes were drilled for the spot welds along the lower edge and tape carefully applied around the areas to be welded, only for me to realise it would be in the way when scuffing the EDP.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/OuterCut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day68/OuterPrep.jpg)
More good session updates to follow soon....
Post by: Jamieg285 on July 31, 2015, 01:10:43 pm
First off, as promised, the missing picture showing the start of the primer going onto the back of the rear seat panels. Can't go any lower yet as the floor needs cleaning first (keep putting this one off)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/SeatBack.jpg)
Onto the first days work... With the primer on the rail and torque box now dry, the two pieces were prepped, cleaning the areas to be welded and weld-through primer applied. Then it was out with the welder and start hitting it. It went in really well, the welds being better than the other side - I must be improving as I go!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/BoxWelded.jpg)
A lot of the rest of the day was spent sanding and cleaning up parts for primer. The one slightly intersting bit was starting to make a side patch for the floor patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/PanEdge.jpg)
I was hoping to weld it on, but the pan needed some rust treatment first, so it will have to wait until later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/FloorTreated.jpg)
So, by the end of the day, primer had been applied to the inside of the outer rocker, the seat back patches, the topside of the torque box, and to finish up the pot, some on the trunk floor/rail section.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/OuterPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/Patches2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/BoxPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day69/TrunkFloorPrimer.jpg)
Next day... Things are going well in the rear floor pan area, but there is another piece of the jigsaw that needs to be included before it can all be welded together, and that is the inner quarter panel.
The original plan was to do similar to the passenger side and replace the lower six inches or so, however the lower edge wasn't in that good a condition and really showed up when hit with the wire brush.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrStripped.jpg)
This changed the plan to doing a much bigger patch, and using the full lower edge. (I will revisit the passenger side later and see if the same area needs doing there too).
So, it was out with the drills and carefully finding and cutting out the spot welds. My technique has advanced now, where I drill a 1.5-2mm hole in the centre to use as a guide, rather than just a centre punch. This is proving to provide a much more positive guide, resulting in quicker cuts and less broken cutters. Downside is it's easy to break such small drill bits, but I think these will be cheaper to replace.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrSpots.jpg)
Didn't take long before things were starting to separate, and quite cleanly too.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrSeparated.jpg)
With the panel seperated from shock tower and trunk floor, I moved to the front section to separate it from the outer rocker. After wire brushing the area, the spot welds were just about visible as colour differences in the metal.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerOuterQtrSpots1.jpg)
A quick check up the inside of the panel also confirmed how far up the panel I needed to go.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerOuterSeam.jpg)
These were quickly despatched and I was ready to start cutting.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerOuterSpots2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrCut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrCut2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrCut3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrCut4.jpg)
That certainly improves the cabin ventilation!
With the bad section cut out in one piece, I was able to use it as a template for cutting from the new panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrOld.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrTemplate.jpg)
It isn't too far out, but will no doubt take lots of fettling to get right.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrTrial1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/InnerQtrTrial2.jpg)
So, as with the 2 previous days, I finished off the day mixing and applying another pot of primer, finishing off the seat back patches, outer rocker, and first side of the newly cut inner quater.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/Primer1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/Primer2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day70/OuterRockerPrimer.jpg)
That's it for this run of decent sessions, back to short stints for a while. It's been a good few days, with some decent progress made and a positive feeling for once.
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 05, 2015, 12:47:14 pm
Over the last couple of days I've done a bit more on the rear corner. The fabbed up side piece for the floor pan patch has been attached:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day71/SideStarted.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day71/SideAdded.jpg)
The rear few inches were left hanging at this point, as the edge of the pan had been a bit mangled during removal and I wanted to make sure the new profile matched that of the inner quarter, before I did the final welding.
I've put two screws into the inner quarter, one from the cab going into the outer wheelhouse and then one from the outside going into the seat back (seen in pic below). This gives me the panel alignment I needed to do some final trimming. As always, I've gone a bit wrong and am left with a wide gap in a few places, but overall it's not too bad.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day71/Screwed1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day71/Screwed2.jpg)
I need to primer the other side of this panel before I start welding it in. There's not enough area on it to use up all of the paint from a single mix, so I will have to do some prep work elsewhere so that I can use up the pot at the same time. I figure I can extend the prep on the body side where the inner quarter will be welded out a bit, so will be able to coat the inner wheelhouse, maybe some of the outer too, but also some of the seat back.
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 14, 2015, 12:44:25 pm
It started off because I had a couple of small items that needed to be primered, but I need more to be able to use up all the mix. Not sure why I chose it, but I started digging into the passenger side inner wheelhouse, checking for the damage along the edges. A bit of a blast with the wire brush on the angle grinder and I've found a few spots of rust/holes that need attention, but I think I can do it in two parts rather than one long one this time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/RightStripped.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/RightStripped2.jpg)
With most of the panel being OK, I decided to continue cleaning it up, and leave the repairs till later. First up was grinding/cleaning up the welds from the patch put in last year. I started trying the flap disc for this too, and was impressed with the results and will definitely use it more.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/RightGround.jpg)
I then used the wire brush to clean up all of the inner panel, readying it for primer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/RightCleaned.jpg)
I then repeated the exercise on the drivers side. My hands were buzzing after that, definitely a job/tool to use in short stints.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/LeftCleaned.jpg)
I also cleaned up the edge of the seat back section, adding a small patch and then smoothing off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/LeftPatched.jpg)
Epoxy primer was then mixed and applied. I'm really happy with the difference it has made to the inner arches.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/Primer1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/Primer2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/LeftPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/RightPrimer.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/RightPrimer2.jpg)
The next evening I was able to continue preparing the drivers inner panel preperation. First off setting it up and marking where the spot welds need to be.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/InnerMarked.jpg)
These were then drilled and cleaned ready for the zinc primer.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/InnerDrilled.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day72/InnerCleaned.jpg)
The zinc primer has now been applied to the patch and the mating surfaces on the car, and it's all ready for welding, but I've stopped there for now.
I took a late decision to scrap the full outer wheelhouse on the drivers side. There was going to be a lot of repair work required on the lower section where it meets the rocker (as already done on the other side), but also a lot of the lip is bad. I'd recently read that the AMD piece is good quality, and also found a local hot rod shop that will get in individual pieces at decent prices. With luck it will be here in a couple of weeks, about the same time as the big shippment coming in the container.
With the outer wheelhouse being removed, I didn't want to start welding around this area until all the new panels are available for lining up. This means the next jobs will be another change of focus - but I haven't worked out what that will be yet. Tail panel, floor pans or something else?
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 23, 2015, 12:59:37 pm
Good news is the latest shimpment has arrived in the UK and been collected. Pics will have to wait for another time, as they are all squirelled away in the garage, but good bits include: 100% quarter skins for both sides, trunk drop offs for both sides, outer wheel house (drivers),full tail panel, cowl panel, wheel adapters (with lip this time, yay!), and brake parts to allow fitting of the new system. I really hope that is the last of the large orders.
As for movement on the car itself, I've been concentrating on the inner door jamb suppport on the drivers side. Firstly cutting the bottom of the quarter up higher to give access, then making/re-using the template from the other side. The rot has gone a bit further this side, but nothing to bad, maybe an inch bigger on the replacement piece.
The shape was then cut from flat sheet, and out with the hammers, resulting in this:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day73/DriverSupport.jpg)
Next up will be some more primering. I need to prepare this piece, which is next to be welded in, but at the same time I will put it on the outer wheel house, inner faces of the quarters, trunk drop offs and tail panel, so they are all ready to be fitted as soon as I am ready to fit them.
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 30, 2015, 12:26:12 pm
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day74/Primer.jpg)
The next morning I made the final adjustments and then welded the inner support in. I realise a missed a section at the bottom, where it attaches to the outer rocker, but that will be easy to sort out later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day74/InnerSupport.jpg)
With that done, it was on to cutting panels and spot welds. I cut a large section of quarter panel out (less than will be required for later) to give me access to the outer wheel house.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day74/Quarter.jpg)
I'd bought the outer wheel house as I thought it would save time replacing the whole, rather than trying to patch. If I'd have realised how many spot welds there were, I may have reconsidered. There are tons of them, about 1/2 in apart. Here are the first few.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day74/Spots.jpg)
An hour or so later and I've only just started to reach the top of the arch. Access is getting harder due to the profile of the metal, and that the welds are nearer the curve. Came up with the idea of cutting most of the panel out, leaving just the flange, which is far easier to access.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Day74/Cut.jpg)
Another hour on, and I'm still only 3/4 of the way round. Hopefully I will get this out in the next session.
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 15, 2016, 01:49:54 pm
Time has been pretty limited, and progress very slow and/or not particularly visible.
Following on from where I left off, the rest of the old outer wheel house was pulled off, and the new one offered up for trial fit.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/OuterTrial.jpg)
By this time the weather and motivation was against me, and I didn't get any further with that area. When the weather was good enough I did a bit of work on the drivers front floor pan.
First off was some exploratory work to determine how big the patch needed to be, and then a patch was cut from an offcut of the rear quarter.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/FloorHoles.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/FloorPatch1.jpg)
I was then able to cut out the bad bits to match the patch.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/FloorCut1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/FloorCut2.jpg)
The toe board area has previously been repaired (not by me) and there was some surface rust where the new patch overlapped the original metal. This needed cleaning up, as the patch I have made goes underneath this.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/FloorCut3.jpg)
New patch trimmed and in place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/FloorPatch2.jpg)
The patch has now been welded in, but not cleaned up yet. No pics yet, but I'll remember to take some. All of this looks pretty short piece of work, but was done across about 5-6 weeks in short 30-45 minute stints.
That is almost it for on-car progress.
Time has been well spent in the meantime though. I've spent many hours in the garage tidying up and re-locating things. There were a few reasons for this:
1 - I had no room to move:
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-1/Garage.jpg)
2 - I couldn't find anything. There were a few things that I had been looking for, but couldn't find (for obvious reasons). I've now been through about 90% of the stuff in there, re-organised and catalogued where things are to help in the future (when I finally get as far as rebuilding and move stuff OUT of the garage!)
3 - I need to make space for a compressor. I'd managed to gather enough money over Christmas and birthday to afford a budget compressor that would be up to the job of spraying when the time comes. It's not a small thing, so space had to be made and in the right place (not sure why, but all my sockets are on the same wall). In preparation for this I have been making some cooling pipes from copper. I'm about halfway through this now, and aim to finish it soon. Pics to follow...
Finally for now, I'd been mocking up the rear quarter panel to the outer wheel house to check compatibility. The profile is good, but the lip is only folded about 45 degrees and will need bending in further to be able to weld the panels together. (pics would be really good here - need to get back on the game with those) I'm not keen in the idea of trying to hammer it down without distorting the panel, so I've looked at using a fender lip roller to do it.
This looks like it would do the job, with one big problem - the tool first to the rear end, which isn't fitted yet. The plan therefore changed to getting the rear floor sections finished so that I could fit the the rear springs and get it all in place. With this in mind I've started cleaning up the rear springs ready for a coat of epoxy.
However, whilst writing this I thought it will be easier to do the lip welding with the rear out, so it's got to go in and out a few times and not worth doing the paint work on it yet. Yet again, the plan changes...
The good news is that the weather is getting much better now, so there should be some more frequent updates.
Post by: Incursus on March 21, 2016, 12:44:48 pm
Wow, more than 5 months since the last update. The good news is I'm still here and so is the car.
:up:
Post by: Jamieg285 on August 10, 2016, 03:56:23 pm
Time on the car over this time has been very limited, often odd sessions of less than an hourm, once or twice a week. It doesn't feel like much has been achieved, however a couple of longer sessions last week have meant I've been able to make a few bigger, more satisfying jobs.
I mentioned in the last update that a compressor was on it's way, so I spent quite a chunk of time building a pipe system to help remove the water vapour from the air. Not used it in anger painting yet, but it seems to have done the job.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Pipes.jpg)
When that was done, attention finally turned back to the car. I welded in the drivers front floor patch. I've didn't have the time or energy to grind the welds back, so for now I just gave it a quick spray to cover it until I do get to it.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/DriversFrontPatch.jpg)
Then it was the Drivers rear floor section. This was a bit of a jigsaw puzzle, requiring lots of welding to piece the bits together. I wanted to get all of the sections joined and ready to be welded in, so that they could be epoxy primed before going in. First job was to fill the missing spot, which I was able to extract from the original floor piece that came out when the torque box was cut out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/MissingPiece.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/OldPiece.jpg)
I mocked it up and tacked it in situ, to ensure it was at the right angle, then it was taken out and fully seam welded and cleaned up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/MockAndTack.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/SeamWeld.jpg)
This and a few other parts were then epoxied ready for fitting.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Epoxy1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Epoxy2.jpg)
The patches were then welded into place, cleaned and primed. Photos don't show it, but I also welded the inner rocker into the floor edge too.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/FloorWelded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/FloorPrimed.jpg)
Next up was going to be the outer rocker panel, but when checking over fitment, I remembered that the lower fender mount point was rusted out and needed fixing.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Holes.jpg)
Not sure what the hole on the left of the pic is for, but I made use of it to help line up the patch so that the threaded hole was in the same place. I started with a cardboard template which recorded the location of both holes. This was then transfered to the donor piece, and a suitable threaded block (taken from a scrap fender) was welded on.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Plate.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/PlateNut.jpg)
A bolt was then threaded through this and into the one on the car, the open holes aligned, and then the car section marked for cuttting to match the patch. Then some careful cutting with the dremel and the rust is out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Hole.jpg)
The patch is then tacked in at one end, again using the open hole for alignment. The patch is then trimmed to match the size of the cut hole, tapped up into place and finally welded in properly and cleaned up flush.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Tacked.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Cut.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Tapped.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Welded.jpg)
With that done relatively quickly, I was able to start looking at the outer rocker. It has already been drilled and prepared for welding, but the car side hasn't. I put it into place with screws, jacked it up into place and started to mark the areas that need cleaning up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Outer.jpg)
Not sure what needs to be done in this area yet.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-2/Jamb.jpg)
I may need to replace some of the metal, but I don't have any decent reference on how this should attach if it were a complete panel. Not sure if I'm missing anything, and what bits should be welded to the rocker. Guess I'll be doing some research...
Post by: Roadkill on August 18, 2016, 07:21:45 pm
I spent quite a chunk of time building a pipe system to help remove the water vapour from the air
I bought 2 x £4 inline filters from eBay when I sprayed the Camaro . . . was recommended them by a painter. That system looks impressive, though. :P
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 20, 2016, 11:12:58 am
With some time off work I was finally able to put some reasonable hours into the car for the first time this year, and some good steps have now been made.
First off, and most important of all - I got a new piece of carpet! I picked it up for pennies at a village fete, it's wide enough to fully cover the gravel area to the side of the car and was long enough to cut in half and give two pieces about as long as the main body section. Happy days!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/Carpet.jpg)
Any way, back to the serious stuff, after a bit of fettling at the front section, I was able to get the drivers side rocker panel 95% welded in. There's a couple of holes at the front door jamb where I need to get the door off before I can get to it, but the rest is done. I've still got to grind the welds back and primer over them, but that will wait for another day.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/DriverRocker.jpg)
With that now in, I was able to focus on patching the inner wheelhouse panel. After mocking it up in place I could see that the floor/underseat panel needed extending along the lip.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/Lip1.jpg)
A rough shape was cut and offered up, tweaked and then welded in place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/Lip2.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/Lip3.jpg)
That, along with the edges of both panels were then cleaned up and zinc primed ready for welding. I used my butt weld clamps in anger for the first time, to ensure a nice even fit around the panel.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/InnerWheelHouse1.jpg)
I tacked in between the clamps, then jumbed back and forth between them to extend the weld without warping (good practice for when I get to the Quarter panels). Clamps were then removed and the rest of the runs completed. With the panel join completed, I then filled in the spot welds along the lower perimeter.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/InnerWheelHouse2.jpg)
I didn't completed the full panel front to back though. The front section needs to be welded from inside the car, and there was too much junk in the way, so that would be cleared later and welded another day. (still pending...) The rear section didn't quite fit where I'd cut (bad cutting) and will some metal removing from the car side, but there is also another section of the same panel that needs replacing, so I will do both of those at the same time.
As with the rocker panel, the welds haven't been cleaned up yet, and I will wait until the rest of the welding is done and do them all at the same time.
Before attacking the rearmost section of the inner wheel house, I wanted to know how much of the rear quarter I could safely remove and still be able to cover with the patch panel. Offering up the panel as it was didn't help as it was being blocked by the door's chrome trim. This was removed, after carefully extracting the weather seal first - It did split around one of the plastic clips, but I am hopeful it can be re-used. I do have spares if it can't.
With the chrome out of the way I tried again, but also, now the rear window glass was in the way. Having taken the glass out a few years ago, I knew this wasn't going to be a quick job, but it was necessary, so I got on with it. I'd already pulled the trim off, so the first task was to remove the filler panel. Getting the screws out was simple, but gettting the panel out whilst the trunk lid was still attached proved more tricky. I'd got myself in a bit of a mess, having moved the panel but not enough to get it out, but too far to be able to fully open/close the trunk. It took a fair bit of wiggling, but it did come out - note to self - remove the trunk lid next time.
With that out of the way, I discovered it was really easy to use a sharp knife along the lower edge from the outside. Using a narrow blade I was able to get it right around the corner too, being able to bend it slightly as the angle changed. That was half the job done with relative ease - it was now the more difficult upper section that had to be tackled from inside.
You may remember that the inside was still storing a lot of the interior pieces, including the seats. This was all pulled out and given a quick clean up, before being re-located to a freshly vacated area in the loft. With a relatively clear interior, I was able to clean it up a bit more, before climbing in to attack the window seal from the inside. It was a lot tougher along the top and needed a heavier duty blade, as the thin one was bending too much for my liking. Even so, it didn't take long at all. I was well chuffed at around 40 mins of cutting to get it fully out, about 10% of what it took last time!
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/WindowOut.jpg)
With the glass now out of the way, I was able to get a real check done on the size of the replacement skin. I was pleased to find that it extended right up to and just past the trunk edge, confirming that I could take pretty much as much of the quarter out as I wanted.
Armed with this knowledge I cut out the section of quarter immediately around the section of inner wheelhouse that needed to be replaced. I need to but a bit more, but have already got a much better view of what needs to be cut out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-3/InnerWheelHouse3.jpg)
More next time...
Post by: Roadkill on September 25, 2016, 01:27:55 pm
:sofa:
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 26, 2016, 11:47:19 am
It's not that tricky though, just be very careful.
Post by: Jamieg285 on November 15, 2016, 01:46:33 pm
First up was the removal of the rusted section of the inner quarter. This was the first opportunity I'd had to use the air hammer with chisel attachment. (You can also see my nice new carpet, which has a deep pile and is kind on the knees :-) )
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/airHammer.jpg)
All I can say is wow - I wish I had this when I started, it would have saved me hours of pounding away with a lump hammer. I need to get used to using a bit, as it can be a litte over agressive, but will make a big difference going forward. Anyway, it took just a few seconds to cut away 5 spot welds to the inner support and the piece was out.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/cutOut.jpg)
With that piece out of the way, I noted that it gave me good access to re-do the repair done to the trunk floor, many years ago when I was still working out which end of the welder to use. To say it was ugly and poor is an understatement, and needed to be taken out. I didn't get a 'before' picture, but here it is cut and primed ready to go.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/HoleReady.jpg)
When it was a case of weld it in, clean it up and apply some epoxy.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/TrunkPatchWelded.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/TrunkPatchEpoxied.jpg)
Before applying the epoxy, I took the chance to clean up the last lot of welding (to the inner wheel house) and some of the trunk support and frame rail and make good use of that batch of epoxy.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/InnerEpoxied.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/TrunkSupportEpoxied.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/TrunkEpoxied.jpg)
The final part of this installment was the insertion of the new part to replace what was cut out at the top of this post.
I carefully aligned it at the lower edge, where the arch is, to ensure the contour remained smooth across the pieces. A couple of butt weld clamps held it in place, and once tacked in, I was able to massage the upper parts to get them to line up as I needed.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/PatchLower.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/PatchUpper.jpg)
When the seam was done, I was then able to clamp the piece onto the inner support and refill the spot welds.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2016-4/PatchWelded.jpg)
I've ground down the welds on the lower part of the arch, as these will be visible behind the wheel. The upper parts will be behind the outer wheelhouse, so I'm not going to worry about cleaning those up. There is a section of welding that will be visible from inside the trunk, so I plan to clamber in there sometime to clean it up. I'll need to do that before I apply any epoxy, so for now have just sprayed some cheap paint over it to protect the metal until I'm ready to sand it back of, clean it all up and epoxy both sides.
Before I do that, I plan to fix the trunk floor (where I'd cut some away to allow access to the frame rail) and make it whole again, so that it's secure enough to work inside when working on the arch.
The weather has well and trully turned now, and is a lot colder and frequently wet at the times when I'm available. Work rate will have to slow, but I do want to keep plugging away at it.
Post by: Jamieg285 on March 16, 2017, 01:12:06 pm
Having spent the 2016/17 winter playing with manual tyre changing tools I got for Christmas, I've finally started back on the Camaro for the first time this year.
Yesterday lunchtime was spent removing the driver's trunk drop off. Armed with the air hammer (my new favourite tool), I was able to rip through the seams quite quickly. There were a few rips to the trunk lip, but that wasn't too bad as it was clear that there was some excessive rust along here too, so I will be looking to patch most if not all of it.
This may make the job of welding the new drop off in a bit easier, as I'm now looking at the possibility of welding the trunk pan patch the drop-off before it's welded into the car, then tying it onto the frame rail and the surviving trunk edge. Time will tell if that works as well as I imagine.
Sorry for the lack of pictures, I ran out of time, but will snap a couple when I get back to work next time.
I tried to mock fit the drop off, and it looks like there will be some massaging required with the outer wheelhouse, which hasn't been welded in yet.
Post by: ianjpage on March 16, 2017, 03:01:08 pm
Post by: Incursus on March 20, 2017, 06:58:28 pm
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 07, 2017, 01:11:05 pm
I (almost) finished off welding in the rear most part of the inner wheel house. Here you can see I've welded it up along the seam and the spot welds on the edge. I've started grinding back the seam, but there's a thin spot where I've gone through and need to re-do. I sprayed on some basic primer to give it a bit of protection over the winter, and will strip it back before putting the epoxy primer on.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-1/InnerArchWelded.jpg)
Here's the void left just after the trunk drop off has been chopped out. It doesn't really show the rough edge very well, but I'm currently planning to make a patch that will fit the whole area between the green lines.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-1/TrunkPatchPlan.jpg)
Post by: Jamieg285 on April 26, 2017, 12:38:02 pm
As previously described, I removed a chunk of the floor directy above the drivers frame rail, and cut/pulled back the section next to it to give me room to do the frame rail repair. Therefore, my first steps are to put that back as it was.
First job was to clear some of the junk and dirt from the area, and then clean up the edges ready for welding.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-2/Edges.jpg)
It's then carefully bent back down and clamped in place.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-2/Clamped.jpg)
Then welded up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-2/Welded.jpg)
Sadly the session was too short to go any further. I'll probably leave the welding clean up until after I've welded in the next section - whenever that happens to be...
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 09, 2017, 02:28:44 pm
I've started trying to line up the driver's trunk drop off, and it's proving to be harder than I had imagined. I thought it would be a simple case of get the outer wheelhouse lined up where it needed to be, then fit the trunk drop off between it and the trunk edge. However in practice I'm not so sure. I lined up the outer wheel house so there was a nice join around the full arc where it meets the inner panel, and fixed it in place with a couple of screws.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-3/LineUp.jpg)
Then things start getting tricky. The mating surfaces between the outer arch and the front of the drop off panel aren't even close. The angles are way off, so I started massaging things a bit to get them somewhere near acceptable. I can get the outer edge to line up nicely, so the arc for the quarter panel looks right, but it didn't appear far enough foward at the back edge, as it stuck out more than the end of the frame rail.
After looking at the replacement tail panel, I noticed that it isn't flat in that area and the drop-off does stick out slightly, so that may be alright after all. I'm still not totally sure though.
To confuse matters even more, when I started looking on the passenger side for reference (it still has the original wheelhouse and drop-off in place) I noted there was a good 1/2 lip where the inner and outer wheelhouses meet, and a slightly lower one on the drop-off to trunk joint. It looks like I may not need to be so exact in lining things up.
This did however get me thinking even more (I'm sure I'm over thinking things!) and I now think that I need to include the lining up of the outer quarter panel before committing to any welding of these panels. The lower edge of the quarter has no option other than to line up with the outer wheelhouse lip, so I may need to raise or lower it from where it is now, and that may affect the drop off.
Whatever happens there, I know that I need to rebuild the trunk floor section, so started work on a patch piece. Even this isn't as simple as expected as the lip of the drop-off isn't totally straight as I would have expceted. The rearmost 10% kicks out and up slightly, making the patch panel fabbing a bit more tricky if it's going to match properly.
I'm back to the cardboard templates, here lining it up so the edges can be marked.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-3/Template1.jpg)
Then when it's pulled out I was able to firm up the lines ready for cutting.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-3/Template2.jpg)
As usual - I ran out of time to continue. Hopefully more next week...
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 17, 2017, 12:36:47 pm
After last weeks thought that the outer wheelhouse location is going to affect the quarter panel location, I switch focus to the quarter panel.
It took me about 15 minutes to mine a way through to the back of the garage and pull the panel from it's hidey-hole. I then pulled the rear bumper, spoiler end and rear glass, and had an initial stab at lining things up to see what the start point was. (Sorry no pics, it's hard enough lining up a large panel as it is, let alone trying to take a photo - perhaps I'll stand the phone up and take some on a timer?)
Anyway, it became clear that some modifications would be needed to the panel to get it ready to be aligned. There is a lip along the front edge, where it folds over into the door jamb. Looking at the fold, it was clear that it's not suitable to be fitted that way, so I cut that bit off.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-4/LipCut.jpg)
With that out of the way, I was close to getting the front section of the panel flush with the car, but there were problems with the lower section at the front. The very bottom of the panel is bent over, to be tucked in above the rocker. This wasn't at the right angle, and I'm not yet sure the right height either. I made a small cut at the rear corner, then flattened the bottom section (without affecting the lower body line!). Once the panel is aligned I will re-do the bend, ensuring it's right this time.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-4/BottomTweaks.jpg)
With those mods, I'm close to being able to try and get an alignment. I'm not yet sure if I need to remove the upper lip, around the window frame, to complete this or not. It will have to be removed anyway, so I will look at doing that next time.
I think I was close enough to see that where I had temporarily screwed the outer wheelhouse was about 1/2 inch too high. This was evident at the mid-height and lower body lines. I had to tweak the bottom edge of the wheelhouse to get it to sit lower into the rocker, and got it about 1/4 down.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-4/TrimOuter.jpg)
The rear side I have left where it is for now, and this appears to have lowered the front part of the panel by rotating it. Next time (after removing the upper lip) I should be able to start clamping things and knowing for certain.
When I say next time, I mean next time I get back to this panel, as plans have changed again. Having taken a look, I figure now is the best time to do any repairs that need doing to the window channel. With the quarter and outer wheelhouse out of the way, I'll never have better access to the underside of this part of the panel.
Post by: Jamieg285 on May 23, 2017, 03:58:23 pm
After looking at the window channel, it looks like the earlier repairs have held up well and don't need re-visiting. There is some surface rust to be tackled, but I think that can be dealt with without welding.
So, back to the outer wheelhouse/quarter/trunk drop off alignments. First off was to trim the lip that was around the window edge.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/WindowLipCut.jpg)
Now there are no lips to interfere with fitment, I clamped the quarter over the outer wheelhouse lip and see how far off we were.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/Clamped.jpg)
Amazingly, it all looked good straight away. A little encouragement and the body lines were where I wanted.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/LinedUp1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/LinedUp2.jpg)
Looked good at the back end too.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/LinedUp3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/LinedUp4.jpg)
With that all held in place, I had a go at aligning the trunk drop off too. This didn't work as due to the rough edges on the bottom of the old quarter. I'll cut this out when I'm ready to have another go at this.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/OldPanel.jpg)
As I started to disasemble the parts, I realisd I'd made a mistake. The outer wheelhouse hadn't been properly held in place. There were screws at the front and rear, but these still allowed the top to rotate out slightly. Only a quarter of an inch, but enough to mean the alignment I thought was good was actually wrong. After re-applying the top screws I found the alignment at the front was too far out to be acceptable, so the process had to start again.
I made a couple more tweaks to the front bottom end of the outer wheelhouse, so that it could go lower still - lower than I needed, but this helped as it gave more wiggle room. Rather than screw the outer wheelhouse in place, this time I use a few well placed clamps, so that I could adjust it easily if required.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/ClampInner.jpg)
Then the quarter was offered up and clamps applied to pull it in tight where required.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/ClampOuter.jpg)
This time I got things lined up properly, and was able to apply some screws to hold the position of quarter to outer wheelhouse, and wheelhouse to main body.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/LinedUp5.jpg)
With those all lined up and held, I set about bending the quarter lip up to meet the wheelhouse flange. Theres about half inch to be close up, all around the arch. I placed a small piece of aluminium between a clamp and the panel, squeezing it up, and bending both parts up a bit at the same time, sort of rolling the arch, but not as extreme.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/BendLip3.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-5/BendLip1.jpg)
I'm about half way round so far, although I can't do the rear most part until the trunk drop off is in place.
Realistically, I've not moved on much, but seeing the panel in place is very satisfying, and it doesn't feel like long until I will be ready to start welding it in. In practice, this could be a long way off, as I think I will need a full day to do all that welding. I will go as far as I can up to that point, and then may move onto something else until the right opportunity comes up.
Post by: Jamieg285 on June 07, 2017, 01:24:47 pm
The fitting of the quarter skin was started when I realised that the alignment of the trunk drop off depended on the wheel house and quarter skin. I've now realised that now I've got that base alignment done, there was no reason not to weld the wheelhouse in place, which would allow me to work on the trunk drop off again.
First job for this was drilling lots of hole for spot welds. For this I used my new punch/flange tool, which made it quick and easy.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Holes.jpg)
These were then sanded back and sprayed with weld-through primmer
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/HolesSanded.jpg)
The mating surfaces on the body were cleaned up and primered to match.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Cleaned.jpg)
The panel was then clamped and screwed to the body, ready to be welded on.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Clamped.jpg)
I then proceeded to spot weld the numerous holes. All seemed to be going well, until I was applying the last couple near the rear of the panel. As I released the screw holding it in place the panel popped forward, showing a lack of weld penetration to the body. It look fine from the outside, but closer inspection showed that a number of the welds were the same. I don't know if the problem was the smaller holes than I had been using (the punch is 5mm, where previously I'd been drilling 8mm) or my welding technique (probably a combination of both), but I needed to rectify it, as it was clear the panel wasn't properly fixed on.
Rather than spend lots of time cutting out out, cleaning up etc, and potentially ruining the panel, I took a different approach. Most of the welds were far enough apart to fit the sheet metal screws I was using, so I proceeded to put one in each gap, effectively drilling a hole through both panels. Then, one at a time I removed a screw, enlarged the hole in the outer panel, then plug welded the hole, ensuring good penetration into both layers. It took quite a while, but it did get the job done.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/2ndWeld1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/2ndWeld2.jpg)
Whilst I had the welder out, I finished off the welding on the inner panel that hadn't been completed before.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Inner1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Inner2.jpg)
I did a small amount of clean up work on the welds, then applied a 1st coat of epoxy primer. A further coat will be applied next time I mix some up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Epoxy1.jpg)
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/Epoxy2.jpg)
Continuing with the change of direction, I've decided that I want to tackle the tailpanel before going any further with the trunk drop off, as there is already a lot of metal missing from that corner, and I wanted to have something in place to use for reference.
Before getting to the tail panel I'd need to finish work on the crossrail panel that sits behind it. I'd made a start in fabricating this a couple of years ago, so dug that bit out and assessed what needed to be done next. Offering it up showed it needed some addional sections made. I also came to the conlusion that I'd not cut enough of the bad panel out, so chopped some more of the outer panel away to get a better view.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-6/CrossRail.jpg)
Since this picture I've cut away most of the rusted bit you can see, and have cut a section ready to replace it. It needs a bit of finessing, and then it can be attached, then the main patch I'd prepared can be adapted and also fitted.
Post by: Jamieg285 on September 07, 2017, 01:45:03 pm
As mentioned at the end of the previous post, I was in the process of patching up the rear crossrail. Here you can see the first part of the patch roughly welded in and before cleaning up.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-7/Patch1.jpg)
It looks an odd shape, but that is because it will match up to the patch parts I started a couple of years ago. It will make more sense when you see them together.
Here is said piece, which has been cleaned up and had a layer of epoxy primer applied to the inner face. The other side will be accessible when it's on the car, so I will clean/paint that later.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-7/Patch2Primed.jpg)
This was trial fitted and marked where it needed triming or primer removed in the welding areas.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-7/Patch2Marked.jpg)
I then drilled all the holes ready for spot welding and whilst the drill was out I did the same on the other side.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-7/PatchesDrilled.jpg)
I'd (relatively) recently cleaned up and epoxy primered the end of the frame rails. The patch was offered up and I marked all the areas that would be welded, then proceeded to grind the epoxy of these spots.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-7/FrameMarked.jpg)
And here you can see the patch welded into place. It still needs cleaning up and epoxying, which is one of the next jobs on the list. Just ahead of that, I plan to chop out more of the lower edge of the tail panel. I'm going to cut it along the line of spot welds where it joings the trunk pan, as this will give me something to support the new panel, rather than it being a straight butt weld.
(http://www.mfatw.com/Pics/2014Surgery/Update2017-7/Patch2Welded.jpg)
Lets hope the next update isn't as long coming as this one was!