Top Gear Tesla did not run out of power...

[HardRockCamaro]

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/22/bbc_top_gear_tesla/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/22/bbc_top_gear_tesla/

They should have said "this is what would happen if it ran out of power with nowhere to recharge" as opposed to pretending it ran out of power after just 50 odd miles (I did find it wierd that it ran out that quick with a claimed 230 mile range).

[Flip Martian]

Goodness. Another BBC programme you can't believe what they say in!

Its 1 thing pretending to destroy things accidentally but this is something else...

[Roadkill]

Yeah.  That's why I don't watch that sh!t.

It may as well be retitled "This is what J.C is thinking this week . . . "

It's yet another waste of my ever increasing TV licence.

[philoldsmobile]

overall i thought they were very fair to the tesla, but one unescapable fact remains - its obsolete. the later item with the honda clarity bore that home only too well..

remarkable machine, the tesla, dont get me wrong, but recharging electric cars is not the way forward, fuel cells are.

[HardRockCamaro]

Fuel cells are many years away.

You'll notice they made no mention of the actual price of that car (they did say it wasn't on the market).

Fuel cells don't like cold weather, cost a mint to make and you have to make hydrogen which typically requires more energy to make/harvest than it gives in energy...

Hydrogen cars at the moment are the auto industry's way of keeping us waiting for something better that is always on the horizon so they don't have to do anything right now...

Hydrogen will be the way to go in 15-20 years, until then you're better off with a hybrid (or whatever)l.

[Titsy]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

You'll notice they made no mention of the actual price of that car (they did say it wasn't on the market).

It's not on general sale yet but they are available for lease for 3 years at $600/month... I guess they are using lease customers as beta testers...

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

Fuel cells don't like cold weather,

I can neither agree nore disagree with this, but this is simply a design challenge or an intended use limitation... If they don't like the cold then market the things in temperate or hot parts of the world...

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

you have to make hydrogen which typically requires more energy to make/harvest than it gives in energy...

This is true, but not by as much as you might think... The Japanesse have a hydroelectric power station on one of there islands which has the sole purpose of producing electricity for extracting hydrogen from water. So it is possible to use hydrogen as a truely green fuel... The limitation with electric cars has always been the storage media... Batteries are not efficient enough and take a long time to charge up, Fuel cell cars do not have this limitation... Plus there is the envionmental impact of disposal at the end of life... Hybrids have the same problem...

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

until then you're better off with a hybrid

hell no... they are no better for the environment than any other production car, in fact they are worse... The manufacturing and disposal impact of the Prius is point in case... You are much better off with a modern diesel...

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

Fuel cells are many years away.

Dude, you can drive one, they are here.... You just have to go live in California...

[HardRockCamaro]

Dude, no offense but you're falling for the car firms PR on this one.  They pushed hydrogen as a better solution to leccy cars so that California (among other places) would kill their 2003 10% of cars must be emissions free mandate.  If anyone tries to put any legislation in place for hydrogen with a fixed date they'll find something else to promise in order to move that goalpost...

The cars being leased in California are indeed test mules, being used in real world conditions to give feedback.  The monthly lease cost is no indication of actual production cost today.  The price and lifespan of fuel cells is pretty poor at the moment.  Yes they will get better with time (just like any other tech) but for TG to suggest that plug-in electric cars are obsolete already is complete s***e.  You won't see a pure fuel cell based car for many years.  I saw an interview with an engineer from Toyota who pointed out the problems (as I mentioned) plus the infrastructure and fuel source issues, plus the fact the the unit in their small SUV cost $1,000,000 at the time.

A couple of years ago I was shown a 30KW fuel cell (handily about what is needed for a leccy family saloon) at a research lab which was the size of a fridgefreezer for the unit, plus you needed somewhere to store the hydrogen.  It was good for up to 1,000 start ups then it died, oh and it was commercially available at £100,000.

Don't get me wrong, great tech, and once they find a sensible way of harvesting hydrogen it will be great all round.  But what I don't like is the need for refilling at your local friendly Shell station.  Basically those big corporations want to keep dipping their hand in my wallet.

I really like the idea of a plug-in hybrid, mains charged leccy for short trips + diesel or hydrogen for longer trips.  Use the leccy only for day to day distances, charging at home, and just use the engine for the much rarer long trips where I need the range.  And if I install a (relatively) inexpensive wind turbine or (more expensive) solar array the leccy part is free.

I just wonder how much were going to have to pay for this hydrogen when they finally figure it out, and how the government will continue to tax it...

[FUBAR]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

Hydrogen will be the way to go in 15-20 years, until then you're better off with a gas guzzling V8.

Schweet

[F Body]

Quoting: FUBAR

Quoting: HardRockCamaro
Hydrogen will be the way to go in 15-20 years, until then you're better off with a gas guzzling V8.

Sat behind a new shiney BMW M5 on the north circular on Sunday, it had printed right across the rear bumper in large white letters " _UCK THE RECESSION "

[philoldsmobile]

much closer to home, there has been fuel cell cars in the UK, on the road for a couple of years..

millbrook has a hydrogen station, and both ford and honda have had fuel cell cars in intensive road testing for about  12 months, both on the track, and road. word from a very accurate source tells me there is a focus (old shape) running a fuel cell with over 100,000 miles of testing on the clock.

expect fuel cell cars on sale in the UK within 12 months, shell already has hydrogen stations not only in california, but also in shanghai (where fuel cell vehicles are already operating) - the first to open in the world.


http://www.shell.com/home/content/hydrogen-en/news_and_library/pressreleases/2007/first_hydrogen_refueling_station_opens_in_shanghai.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.shell.com/home/content/hydrogen-en/news_and_library/pressreleases/2007/first_hydrogen_refueling_station_opens_in_shanghai.html

until plug in battery cars can be recharged in 2 - 3 mins, they are never going to be a viable option.

[philoldsmobile]

http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/08/19/ford-focus-fuel-cell-vehicles-perform-better-than-expected/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/08/19/ford-focus-fuel-cell-vehicles-perform-better-than-expected/

interesting..

[HardRockCamaro]

There has been a hydrogen fuel cell filling station on the A12 into Essex for a few years.  It's there for testing.

I can't see fuel cell cars hitting the road in 12 months...