Gutted - Camaro wouldn't start.

Started by F Body, January 09, 2011, 12:19:22 PM

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F Body

#25
January 13, 2011, 02:56:24 AM
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Back on topic though, you gotta start driving the car more martyn...you're killing it.


When was the last time you rode the Kawasaki

More seriously though, I'd be killing it if was left outside and never driven

Roadkill

#26
January 13, 2011, 03:57:25 AM
Quoting: philoldsmobile
except this one...


That must be fairly new - searched fairly recently for one and didn't see one.

philoldsmobile

#27
January 13, 2011, 08:18:31 AM
Quoting: F Body
More seriously though, I'd be killing it if was left outside and never driven


common misconception - that's better for it that leaving it in a garage..

the air (which contains moisture) trapped in all the panels (especially any box areas such as rear chassis legs) wont move, and 'drops' its moisture in a still environment.

driving it in the rain wont harm it anywhere near as much, because even if these areas get wet, they dry again with natural air movement. where the car is at the moment it cant 'breathe'

a non heated concrete garage is the worst environment possible to store a car in, the best is a wooden garage.

philoldsmobile

#28
January 13, 2011, 08:19:46 AM
Quoting: F Body
When was the last time you rode the Kawasaki



4 weeks ago.. albeit only a very short distance, and in the dry..

Pod

#29
January 14, 2011, 07:26:32 AM
Quoting: philoldsmobile
a non heated concrete garage is the worst environment possible to store a car in, the best is a wooden garage.


But if that's all you've got...

For what it's worth, my car spent (almost) three years in the garage without moving and came out no worse than when it went it.

philoldsmobile

#30
January 15, 2011, 06:35:52 AM
on a modern car you're better off leaving it outside (don't cover it either) older cars fare much better in a garage, the problem garaging modern cars is that corrosion can build in all of the electrical connectors.

when kept outside at ambient temperature everything can 'breathe' - bodywork shouldn't suffer as modern cars are usually galvanized and even things like the camaro that aren't have better rust protection on the external metal work. the vulnerable areas are the inside  of sills and chassis legs when the air doesn't circulate.

if you must garage the camaro, you're better off leaving the windows down and the t tops off for the benefit of the interior electrics. trapped moist air (which your garage will have in abundance) is the worst thing you can have.

better yet, drive it. a drive in the rain (without salt on the road) will do less harm than prolonged storage. Bikes don't suffer in the same way, because they have less areas moisture can trap, far less wiring, and by comparison the garage is a larger area of air compared to the bike.

oh, and the cardinal sin? never ever put the car in the garage wet...

F Body

#31
January 21, 2011, 11:44:20 AM

F Body

#32
January 22, 2011, 10:13:23 AM
Quoting: F Body
I'll see if I can get it cut on Saturday


Got the key cut on Bovingdon Market for £5, works perfectly total cost = £15.59

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Incursus

#33
January 22, 2011, 10:32:39 AM

VIPER

#34
January 22, 2011, 01:51:03 PM
Same key i had on my 92...........

F Body

#35
January 23, 2011, 12:08:09 PM
Quoting: F Body
works perfectly


Did work

Bugger wouldn't start this morning

So I've done the ignition lock by pass



Difficult to find the wire



No cut and shut here, proper connectors so that the mod can be easily removed



Then plug the resistor in



This took hours to do and still the Gal won't fire

Well on the plus side it's eliminated the key and ignition lock, on the down side it could be the control module which is a dash board out job

F Body

#36
January 23, 2011, 02:46:22 PM
Just spent 2 hours looking through the official GM electrical service manual

According to the various fault finding charts, I haven't got a problem

If VATS is faulty the Security lamp should stay illuminated for 3 minutes, or flash at 1 second intervals, mine does the 5 second bulb check and turns off indicating no fault

My next best guess is the BCM ( Body Control Module ) , this can either or both, stop power going to the starter relay, mine cranks fine and/or disables the fuel injectors

But if it does do either it should illuminate the Security lamp

Will the F Body ever run again

F Body

#37
January 24, 2011, 07:54:00 AM
Quoting: F Body
Will the F Body ever run again



GM VATS or PASSkey II Bypass Module For LS1 and LT1 may be worth a punt at £9.37

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220708329684&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220708329684&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

philoldsmobile

#38
January 24, 2011, 08:27:47 AM
fuel pump relay? can you hear it priming before you turn it over?

EDGE

#39
January 24, 2011, 10:14:26 AM
clifford alarm ????

Roadkill

#40
January 24, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Quoting: F Body
Will the F Body ever run again


I'll offer you £400 for the motor.

F Body

#41
January 24, 2011, 12:05:21 PM
Quoting: Roadkill
I'll offer you £4000 for the motor.


OK

Going to disconnect the battery for a few days and see if that makes any difference

Titsy

#42
January 24, 2011, 12:48:16 PM
Quoting: philoldsmobile
fuel pump relay? can you hear it priming before you turn it over?

F Body

#43
January 24, 2011, 01:57:27 PM
Quoting: Titsy
Quoting: philoldsmobile
fuel pump relay? can you hear it priming before you turn it over?



It could be any number of things, but seeing as changing the key worked and I then drove 13 miles, stopping the engine twice, I was inclined to think VATS
Don't know how you'd test the relay

Quoting: F Body
Going to disconnect the battery


Done, the battery has never been disconnected before, when I've changed batteries I always had it hooked up to the trickle charger to maintain the radio settings etc
Doubt it will make any difference, but worth a try

Quoting: EDGE
clifford alarm ???


Again not impossible but the lap top alarm diagnostics are't showing any faults and when the alarm engages, it cuts all power to the dash and the engine won't crank

Quoting: F Body
GM VATS or PASSkey II Bypass Module For LS1 and LT1 may be worth a punt at £9.37


Ordered for £13.47 delivered, as a said worth a punt after we have eliminated other possible causes

Keep your ideas coming because I'm no electronics expert

philoldsmobile

#44
January 24, 2011, 06:08:32 PM
Testing the relay is dead simple. turn the ignition on, and listen for the whirr of the fuel pump priming. no whirr = no fuel pump. There are only two really likely candidates, the relay (cheap and easy to eliminate) or the pump.

relays also have a habit of working many times in a row, then stopping with no symptoms.

Sadly I have to point out again, this is a classic sunny day car issue - sticky relays are a common sign of a car thats been under used. In the nicest possible way, use it or loose it, parking it in the garage and polishing it does more harm than the occasional drive in the rain, modern cars hate standing..

F Body

#45
January 25, 2011, 12:24:13 PM
Quoting: philoldsmobile
Testing the relay is dead simple. turn the ignition on, and listen for the whirr of the fuel pump priming. no whirr = no fuel pump.


Reconnected the battery and after spending 5 minutes being deafened I managed to turn the clifford alarm off

When the ignition is turned on I can hear the fuel pump priming for a few seconds

I then checked every single electrical function and everything works OK, I was pleased to find that the radio and CD player still work after disconnecting the power, because I've never had the code card

But still the old Gal cranks like a good un but won't fire

I repeat there are no OBD2 fault or alarm codes, so my money is still on the VATS unit
According to the GM manual if there is a problem with the key resistance, the security light will illuminate for 3 minutes ( even after switching off ) or flash every second.
Mine comes on at light check for 5 seconds and then goes out, so my current ( pun intended ) suggestion is that the VATS unit is fine with the resistor value, but is not sending the 30Hz signal to the PCM to fire the fuel injectors

Any ideas people

philoldsmobile

#46
January 26, 2011, 06:12:40 AM
time to get it to a specialist I reckon...  

F Body

#47
January 26, 2011, 07:20:08 AM
Quoting: philoldsmobile
time to get it to a specialist I reckon...


Plenty of time to learn electronics, it's going to be winter for the next two months

Titsy

#48
January 26, 2011, 07:36:31 AM
Fuel, Compression, Ignition...

Do you have all of these?

Are the injectors firing? they should have a constant 12v on one side when the ignition comes on, and a ground that is switched by the engine ECU to fire them.

Do you have fuel pressure in the rail?

Do you have a spark at the plugs?

Titsy

#49
January 26, 2011, 07:38:42 AM
Quoting: F Body
According to the GM manual if there is a problem with the key resistance, the security light will illuminate for 3 minutes ( even after switching off ) or flash every second.


Can you make this happen by removing your bypass resistor, disconnecting the cable from the barrel and turning the key?
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