Engine Noise - Any Guesses?

[art b]

hey cp
did you wiggle the pulleys on each item to see it there was play in the bearing or if it grumbled when spun,

you could add load on to each item
alternator
air con
power steering, etc

to see if the noise increases with any of them...

[art b]

Quoting: Andy

To be honest apart from noticing the leaky water pump, if everything is working and nothing is losing/using fluids, just live with it? My old Mondy always sounded like shit first thing in the morning.

eventually it will reveal itself...

[Cunning Plan]

Quoting: Andy

To be honest apart from noticing the leaky water pump, if everything is working and nothing is losing/using fluids, just live with it? My old Mondy always sounded like shit first thing in the morning.

This isn't bad advice really, because as you say, it isn't effecting the engine performance and it is just an annoying noise on the first cold-start. Once warm, it just sounds like a old-skool Diesel / tractor as usual

Quoting: art b

did you wiggle the pulleys on each item to see it there was play in the bearing or if it grumbled when spun,

No I didn't

The guys on Jeep-Club suggested to spray some WD40 on the back of one pulley at a time to try to eliminate good pulleys and hopefully find the source of the noise. I will try that next and if that does not work, when I am replacing the water pump O-Ring seal, as I will have to take the drive-belt off to do it, it will give me the opportunity to give each one a wiggle.

Quoting: art b

you could add load on to each item

I have tried this and it just sounds the same: Rattley-chains in the morning, which is louder when it is cold outside, then fine when it is warm or on second / third start of the day.

[Cunning Plan]

Has anyone got any idea how I can find out what size water pump is in my engine without taking it apart which will mean draining the system, then once I know which one it is, I will need to put it back together with the leaking pump, fill it back up with AF and coolant, bleed it, go and get the new pump, then do it all over again to fit the new pump.  

There are apparently two choices of pump for my engine - 70mm and 76mm. They are both special order and non-refundable, so I cannot buy both and take back the one that does not fit.

Any help lads?

[Andy]

Do you know what the engine code is? Can you decode it from the RPO tag?

[Andy]

At just under £80 for both, I'd take the hit, then flog the other one on eBay...

Think about the saving in AF and just the nastiness of doing a coolant change in Winter.

[Roadkill]

I wouldn't have thought the water pump would be making this noise.  Water doesn't lubricate so the noise wouldn't go away once the engine warmed up.

Unless you can be more sure I'd run it another week or two and just periodically give it a visual check-over to make sure nothing is about to fall off.



EDIT - Although :

Quoting: Andy

At just under £80 for both, I'd take the hit, then flog the other one on eBay...

Is a good idea at that price.

[Andy]

I don't think he thinks its the water pump, he did mention somewhere further up there that the water pump is leaking, so I guess he's going the whole 9 yards and replacing that, plus the gasket.

As, to me having no heard the video (which I missed before) sounds like a shagged bearing. Now that could go on doing that for ages, or eventually seize up solid, but for the time being, as long as you hear it, you know its moving!

ETA:

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Whilst doing some exploring around the engine, I did notice that the water pump is seeping a little bit, so I'll have to replace that, hopefully at the same time as replacing whatever is making this noise as I will have most of the front-end apart.

ETA Again:

While thinking of eBay, check out the option on there, as EuroCarParts are registered on there and sell their bits for cheaper through there. Also you'll get the eBay guarantee, so in theory could send it back.

[Cunning Plan]

Quoting: Andy

Do you know what the engine code is

I'm sure I can find out..

Quoting: Andy

the RPO tag?

What and how?

[Roadkill]

Quoting: Cunning Plan

What and how?

That'll probably be behind the lower portion of the windscreen, near the cowl on the left-hand side.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/vin.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.wjjeeps.com/vin.htm

[Cunning Plan]

Right, back from a way-too-busy day at work and can reply properly now.

Quoting: Andy

At just under £80 for both, I'd take the hit, then flog the other one on eBay...

Where did you find these? What website is that?

Good find btw.

Quoting: Andy

Think about the saving in AF and just the nastiness of doing a coolant change in Winter.

I don't mind doing another coolant change as the cooling system on the Diesel 2.5 needs a lot of looking after, so it should be beneficial. Although, it is very annoying as I only did it a month ago or so (It gets two flushes a year).

Quoting: Roadkill

I wouldn't have thought the water pump would be making this noise. Water doesn't lubricate so the noise wouldn't go away once the engine warmed up.

Quit playing with your foyer shed and keep up

Quoting: Andy

I don't think he thinks its the water pump, he did mention somewhere further up there that the water pump is leaking, so I guess he's going the whole 9 yards and replacing that, plus the gasket.

Quoting: Andy

While thinking of eBay....

Going to take a look now

Quoting: Roadkill

That'll probably be behind the lower portion of the windscreen, near the cowl on the left-hand side.

Got it, but all of the websites I have tried that decode the VIN, just show me what I already know - 2.5 Diesel, 1999 RHD etc.. Unfortunately, no engine code / water pump information.

[Andy]

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Where did you find these? What website is that?  

Eurocar Parts dude, bunged in the rough details from your other thread, came up with the two options. Like I said though, they also trade on eBay so may be able to find them cheaper on there.

[Cunning Plan]

Quoting: Andy

Eurocar Parts dude

Dude, I fecking love you.

Called ECP this morning and ordered both pumps for £50, plus they will accept back whichever unit is incorrect!

However, they did explain that they have a similar policy as CAS, where if the parts are not in 'company stock' and they have had to order them in specially, they cannot return them to their suppliers unless they are faulty parts, not if someone ordered them incorrectly, which in-turn means I could not simply return the wrong one. I can appreciate why, but it isn't that helpful when you're in my situation.

But, the ones ECP have are from their 'stock', so, I'm collecting them tonight and I'll fit one of them tomorrow morning, give the cooling-system a flush and re-fill and hopefully eliminate the pump-seeping issue. I will have a further play with other pulleys whilst I am at it to try and find this rattling noise.

I have an idea to attach each pulley in-turn to the crank until I find the noisy one, however, I am not totally sure how. Perhaps some heavy duty cord? Not sure..

[Andy]

I reckon once you have the main serp belt off and you try spinning a few of the, you'll see what is what, and what seems knackered.

No worries about ECP, they've been more than helpful to me on several occasions. Used to use a small outfit at the end of our a round but a new guy started running it and it promptly went broke. Haven't had a single issue with ECP.

[art b]

Quoting: Cunning Plan

I have an idea to attach each pulley in-turn to the crank until I find the noisy one, however, I am not totally sure how. Perhaps some heavy duty cord? Not sure..  

use ya tights..

[Cunning Plan]

Quoting: art b

use ya tights..

And ladder them? I don't think so honey.










Not a bad idea... I might have to stop at Tesco on the way back and check out the girl's section

[Incursus]

Quoting: Cunning Plan

check out the girl's section

[Cunning Plan]

[Cunning Plan]

Quoting: Cunning Plan

Called ECP this morning

Not overly impressed with ECP. I arrived to pick them up on Friday after work to be met by a guy on the front-desk who I had to tell 4 times that I was there to pick up a water pump. The conversation went like this:

Me: "Hi I am here to collect water pumps for a Jeep Cherokee"
ECP: "Ok"
Me: "The registration is X"
ECP (typing away): "Okay Sir, so you are here to collect oil pump."
Me: "No, water pumps"
ECP: "Okay, what car is it"
Me (thinking WTF): "It's a Jeep Cherokee"
ECP: "Washer pump for a Jeep Cherokee"
Me: "No!!! Water Pump for a Jeep Cherokee, I called earlier, there should be two ordered for me, I spoke to Robin, is he available to speak to?"
ECP: "Water Pump, oohkay, what's the vehicle reg?"
Me: "It's X"

Sure, it could have been an off-day for him or I could admit that perhaps he didn't understand because of how I said it, but seriously, dude

Anyway, after that, all I wanted to do was get in the car and get on the road to travel to Norfolk (where all my tools are) before the traffic gets heavy, so I did not check the boxes.

The next morning I got up to change the water pump, but experience told me, before everything is apart, I should check the boxes to ensure that they are the correct parts. The boxes were extremely damaged, I think both of them had been used as footballs. Not filling me with confidence, I decided to check for damage and after looking at each pump I noticed that neither had the vital O-Ring seal included, even after specifically asking EuroCar Parts (<for the benefit of Google) on the phone before I ordered if they included the O-Ring seals, which I was given the response of 'Yeah they should do... yeah'.

To be honest, I could take a small amount of the blame as you could say I should have checked whilst at ECP, but after dealing with the challenging chap on the front desk and after being told that they would include the seals, I just didn't think of it at the time.

So, first thing was spent driving into Wisbech to the Hydraulic engineer to get some seals made.

Fortunately, they were open on the Saturday and made some up for me within minutes.

Then, in an attempt to get at the water pump, I took most of the front end apart, but I still could not get at the bolt that was at the tightest angle.



I always start with the hardest fixing first, as you know if you can get that out, you can do the rest, otherwise you disturb the seal by loosening the easy ones, then discovering that you cannot get to the hardest one

Bearing in mind that it is not a leak, it is a 'seep', I thought it is not urgent and I would have to suck up the wasted hours taking everything apart, to put it all back together again and fill it back up with coolant, then bleed the system, without actually repairing the water-pump seal with the intention of attempting it again with an adjustable-headed ratchet spanner. I did not really have a choice as the Cherokee is my daily driver and I needed the car for work

So the plan is to fit the new pump when I am confident that I can get the bolts out.

HOWEVER, I noticed, especially this morning since it was 0-2 degrees and the noise is usually at its loudest when it is cold, the engine noise had gone It sounded completely normal

So I am assuming, it was something un-important rattling around, perhaps near the radiator where it expands and contracts with heat.  

[Andy]

Did you not do the hammer test first?

You know, you go round the various areas where the noise is hitting bits to see if it stop/gets worse/goes bang?

Regards ECP, thats a shame. I know they don't employ the most knowledgeable staff, but my local one has two or three guys that are ex-dealership parts people (particularly Ford) so know a few things others don't, very helpful with my Focus at least.

Again, the parts getting kicked around, can't say I've had that, but I would've personally rejected them on the spot or at least gone over the contents there. There is a sign at my local one that tells the clerk to check the box with the customer before signing for it.

Good call on the trying the hardest bolt first! So many situations where I wish I'd adopted that approach before getting stuck! Guess it could be a front off job so you can get access to it. That or get it started with a cold chisel?

[Incursus]

Quoting: Andy

Did you not do the hammer test first

Don't forget the Duct tape!

There's nothing that can't be fixed/bodged with a Hammer, Duct tape and WD40.  

[Andy]

Quoting: Incursus

There's nothing that can't be fixed/bodged with a Hammer, Duct tape and WD40.  

Engineers flow chart... its just in the trade we use bigger more impressive words...

[Incursus]

Quoting: Andy

Engineers flow chart... its just in the trade we use bigger more impressive words...

Doesn't include the hammer test

Of course real engineers use powerpoint and excel

[Roadkill]

Quoting: Incursus

Of course real engineers use powerpoint and excel

[Andy]

Quoting: Incursus

Of course real engineers use powerpoint and excel

Do they? Guess they're the same 'engineers' who can't read a mic...

Or know what a shifter is.